WestJet to launch ultra-low-cost carrier 'Swoop’
Apr 26, 2017, 6:53 pm
#76
Join Date: Nov 2008
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You guys are worrying about this wayyyy too much. This is an empty threat. End of story. Book your trips as planned. You can't control this, and there is probably a 1% chance it will affect your trips 9 months from now
Apr 26, 2017, 9:31 pm
#77
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: YVR
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Apr 27, 2017, 1:44 am
#78
Join Date: May 2013
Location: west coast best coast
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Even if trips are affected, like when AC "rouged" routes, full refunds/reroutes were offered. It is my suspicion that WestJet would probably initially launch new routes with the ULCC, not offload existing ones.
Apr 27, 2017, 9:42 pm
#79
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: AC 35K, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 232
I know a lot of folks were unhappy when YVR-LAX-YVR went to Rouge...read: no business class, but as it turns out Premium Rouge on the narrow body aircraft is pretty similar to mainline J-class. Now it's back to a mainline route anyway, not sure if all the complaining helped...
Apr 28, 2017, 7:41 am
#80
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: YYG
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It will be interesting to see how the fall and winter unfold, and what this ULCC brings to the table.
Apr 28, 2017, 5:22 pm
#81
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: YVR TLS
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Oh yes, that is correct...it was almost scandalous at the time, lots of celeb's etc do this run and AC lost them all to United...
Apr 28, 2017, 9:02 pm
#82
Join Date: Jan 2005
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That wasn't at all my issue, although I was E50K with AC at the time. I'm a Y-class traveler (other than the occasional upgrade).
My issues: Rouge flight # 1 - booked mainline, flight switched from mainline to Rouge, thought "how bad could it be", found out that I absolutely do not fit in that "HD" seating in Y (in spite of AC's continuing markting BS claiming that their "slimline seats provide extra room". Worst flight I've ever had. Flight 2: Next segment. Too late to change. Told multiple AC agents that I needed help because it was impossible for me to fit in the seat. Multiple agents told me my only recourse was to buy Rouge's business class if I wanted a seat that a 6'4" person could fit in. Essentially told that, as a tall person, I had to pay gobs more money if I wanted to fly with them. (At that very moment, considered myself fired as an AC customer.). Next up: AC mainline flights on a route converted to Rouge. But the conversion left the route (YYC-PHX) suddenly unserved for about 90 days -- during which time I had been booked to fly. AC agents told me, a supposedly valued Elite customer, that my only option was to fly Rouge to LAX (and pay lots of $$ if I wanted to actually fit - as the measly 6 preferred seats were already gone), change terminals, then connect on UA. I had to argue and escalate over a number of days to get a refund for that one.
For me, I didn't get burned by Rouge because it didn't allow me a big seat in business class. Instead, I had awful, awful experiences with the product and with how AC rolled it out.
Am I being too concerned about WS adding a ULCC? I really, really hope so.
But, so far, this sounds like a bit of a re-run of Rouge. God I hope I'm wrong.
(Just in case I've left any doubt, I will never in my life step foot on LessJet, or Teal, or whatever this WestJet ULCC is.)
Last edited by FlyerJ; Apr 28, 2017 at 9:09 pm
Apr 28, 2017, 11:20 pm
#83
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Erstwhile Accidental AC E35K
Posts: 2,916
My one and only flight with Rogue was on a 319 with 29" pitch. Even at average 5'-10" height my knees were against the seat back. I won't do it again.
Note to Westjet: 29" pitch DOESNT WORK! And the so-called slimline seats are a cruel hoax.
Note to Westjet: 29" pitch DOESNT WORK! And the so-called slimline seats are a cruel hoax.
Apr 29, 2017, 11:42 am
#84
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mostly Canada and the World
Programs: Several
Posts: 484
And so are those seats on the WestJet Dash-8's. Probably the most uncomfortable seat of any airline I have ever flown. Not only are the Dash-8's uncomfortable for those 2 hour flights they offer between YMM and YVR because the seats are just way too narrow and I hate being cuddled up for 2 hours against other people, but the seats are rock hard. This past week I flew an AC Dash-8 from YVR to YMM and the seats were surprisingly much more comfortable.
My ask to WS is to please not go slimline any more and please bring back 737 service to YMM within in the province and to YVR.
Apr 30, 2017, 7:22 am
#85
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Apr 30, 2017, 4:14 pm
#86
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: YVR TLS
Programs: Air France Flying Blue, Altitude SE-100k, AAdvantage, United Mileage Plus, WS rewards, BonVoy Titan
Posts: 912
the rhetoric is heating up at the AvCanada (Westjet) over this whole ULCC, from what I'm reading there is concern from the pilots persecutive as well as us pax...
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewt...?f=36&t=115841
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewt...?f=36&t=115841
Apr 30, 2017, 8:34 pm
#87
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Erstwhile Accidental AC E35K
Posts: 2,916
Just when you thought things couldn’t get weirder north of the border, ...
May 1, 2017, 1:02 pm
#88
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,003
May 1, 2017, 9:56 pm
#89
Join Date: Mar 2006
Programs: Aeroplan; Milage Plan; Hhonors;
Posts: 335
This is extremely interesting in two different ways. Obviously, it would be great to see Canada have a true ULCC with regularly scheduled service (as opposed to a charter operation) and with "low cost" actually extending to the consumer, not just the operator as AtlanticXpat noted.
But beyond that, could having a ULCC subsidiary (?) open the door to Westjet mainline joining an alliance and further developing its value prop for business travel? If Westjet were part of Skyteam, my annual spend with them could more than double.
But beyond that, could having a ULCC subsidiary (?) open the door to Westjet mainline joining an alliance and further developing its value prop for business travel? If Westjet were part of Skyteam, my annual spend with them could more than double.
May 1, 2017, 10:59 pm
#90
Join Date: Mar 2006
Programs: Aeroplan; Milage Plan; Hhonors;
Posts: 335
Not necessarily. The aircraft is the same to operate, but they make money the same way rouge does:
1) Cram way more seats in the same aircraft and lower seat pitch to 29".
2) Hire staff at lower wages (typically younger folks in their 20s) than mainline.
You do that, suddenly some marginal routes become profitable.
1) Cram way more seats in the same aircraft and lower seat pitch to 29".
2) Hire staff at lower wages (typically younger folks in their 20s) than mainline.
You do that, suddenly some marginal routes become profitable.
Just one example and I am sure there are others:
- YKF has some of the lowest, if not the lowest, airport fees in the country for airlines
- YKF is 83km from yyz; an alternate to YYZ for those west of YYZ
- YHM is serviced by WS legacy service which could be cannibalized
- YHM is closer to the BUF/IAG draw/competition (Including Spirit/Allegiant)
- YXU is too far from GTA to be YYZ alternate and associated volume
- YXU is serviced by WS legacy service which would be cannibalized
- YKF direct catchment population of 730k within 35km radios, which accounts for 2.5m air trips annually.
- YYZ is nearing capacity (70m pax) in less than 20 yrs
- YKF sits next the GO line and planned station, with anticipated service expansion including proposed high speed into a YYZ multi-modal hub.
- Government approval and support of the airport's master plan and staged expansion goals
- $9/day parking!
I have given this some thought but always welcome the knowledgeable insight of others. Are there other domestic airports similar you can think of?
Would I fly YKF - SFB, avoid Pearson and pay less including a few bucks for baggage, snacks and a drink? you bet!