bocastephen

What is their incentive for providing a horrendous economy seat? If they are going after Air Canada's market, which is what they should be doing, offering a more comfortable seat with even a smidgen of extra space coupled with better service and seamless integration with Skyteam would put a nail in Air Canada's international business.

Hopefully Westjet is clear on who their competition really is.

Error 601

They don't need the 787 to do that. It seems pretty obvious to me that nobody in Canada is looking to compete on the basis of a superior economy seat.

PhotoJim

WestJet could fly to SYD from YYC - a stop in HNL would make it possible. It wasn't that many years ago that AC still stopped in HNL on its SYD flights.

I'm not sure what the fifth freedom rights are about revenue passengers from SYD-HNL (not sure I have the right freedom there), but if that's possible, this could make a lot of sense for WestJet.

Frequentlander

For thru traffic, that stop in HNL was barbaric. Get off the plane, get your bags, go through US immigration, get back on the plans...all in the middle of the night. No thanks. Non-stop wins.

newcdn

Exactly.

US has no sense for a proper connecting pax procedure/experience.
It is non existent.

YVR72

How about a new name and rebrand for this airline to put it in a new league?

aerobod

The WestJet brand alone is worth about $1 billion, why would it make sense to throw that away and pay to build a new brand, instead of adding value to the existing one? The current league is working quite well, why shift to a different one?

Symmetre

Don't be so sure on the seat count being higher than AC. Don't forget, AC currently flies the highest density seating in the industry for its 777-300s, and eliminated some washrooms to cram 458 seats into a 350-seat plane. They like density as much as anyone.

tracon

JL is still the winner when it comes to 773 seat density.
500 seats.

winnipegrev

AF flies long haul 77Ws in denser configurations than AC. Regionally several operate 777-300s with more seats as well.

I presume if WS goes with lie flat seats, they'll be cut-rate high density ones like LX or old-777HD and a much smaller cabin than AC's typical 40J leading to higher capacity overall.

In terms of the 789, NZ, EY, LA, DY, TZ, and BY all have more total seats than AC.

Absolutely no one in Canada will compete on superior Y. It's laughable considering WS are the ones leading the race to the bottom by pioneering Canadian TATL Y with no meal service. The Canadian track record sucks:
1) AC - densifying
2) WS - densifying 737s + BOB long haul
3) Sunwing - regulatory max 737 seats
4) Air Transat - 9-abreast A330/A310, regulatory max 737 seats

Even if they were all-J, 10 789s will not put a nail in any market AC flies. WS is using 4 763s to serve just one destination, largely seasonally. AC is filling 6 77Ws, 1 789, 3 763s and a 319 daily to London (more seats than pre-WS service). Business traffic will still prefer LHR.

tcook052

Does this international expansion put in jeopardy WestJet's long-standing policy against overbooking?

CanuckFlyHigh

Remember when they came out with their "westjet Careantee" that stated they would never charge for bags. Then about 6 months later....

Just sayin

bocastephen

And that's a shame because the bar is set so low, it wouldn't take very much in terms of better product or service to send Air Canada to the trash bin of history. Unfortunately Canadians seem to get screwed on everything from cell phone service to airlines, even with competition.

However, as we consistently point out in the Air Canada thread - you have alternatives with a single connection from most of Canada, within either *A or ST, airlines that are far, fare better than Air Canada or Westjet could dream of.

Fiordland

I think they are hitting the wall on what the can do with the 737 and Dash-8. If they want growth they need wide body aircraft. The 787-9 is the smallest new aircraft they can get into. It is to much plane for a pure economy operation out of Canada. To much plane for a economy + premium economy operation. They are left offering International Business Class + Economy.

Back in the day when AC operated nine across 777-300, part of the justification for the aircraft was they needed the cargo capacity but it was a bit to big for their needs (and 9 across also the norm). Today they can fill a 10 across aircraft so the 9 across configuration is gone.

I would not be surprised if WestJet did something similar. Build their business model on a slightly less dense aircraft. Once they build the market, then bump up the density.

newcdn

That's not really a fair comparison as EY has no PY, NZ has 18J cabin, etc.
Premium seats take more space.


The Y pitch on AC 789 is 30", while EY and NZ are 31-32". AC is stuffing an extra row of Y in the space as other airlines. For example AC has 15 rows in the last Y cabin, almost all other carriers have 14. Even carriers like Norwegian or Scoot.


AC has one of the densest (or maybe THE densest taking into account the number of J and PY seats AC has) mainline 789 configs.