WestJet to purchase Boeing 787-9 Dreamliners
May 2, 2017, 5:50 pm
#16
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Love the fact that WS is buying subsidised planes from Boeing while Boeing is trying to throw tens of thousands of Canadians out of work by starting trade actions against Bombardier, claiming their planes are subsided. Personally would rather WS bought Airbus. For the record Boeing has is still showing a loss on the 787's, and the factory in South Carolina was practically free given the federal state and county support.
Word is that two major US airlines have been kicking the tires of the CS line, and Boeing is trying to take out a competitor, buisness is buisness I guess. But WS, and Ottawa with the unnecessary Super Hornet purchase should not be abetting this.
Word is that two major US airlines have been kicking the tires of the CS line, and Boeing is trying to take out a competitor, buisness is buisness I guess. But WS, and Ottawa with the unnecessary Super Hornet purchase should not be abetting this.
May 2, 2017, 5:58 pm
#17
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So now, there's a couple questions...
To me, they can take this either way...they can either become part of an alliance a legacy type carrier with true business class, multiple long haul destinations etc.
However, based on the announcement of their ULCC division or whatever u wanna call it, I'd suggest they're going the other way. They're gonna try to be Scoot or Nok Air, whatever. They'll cram this thing with as many seats as possible, the "J" will be basically what it is on the garbage 767s now. The long haul routes will be mainly the touristy ones...LGW, ORY, FCO/VCE, and the like.
I'm not sure the barriers to entry to joining some of these alliances, but I know most of the time they want to have some synchronicity across the different airlines. How much of a drop down does a CX J passenger see when they arrive in Vancouver and then jump on an aircraft to YUL? I certainly wouldn't wanna be a customer of a full service airline then connecting on to an LCC.
The 767s were a joke to begin with, but my guess is they wanted to jump right into the long haul and couldn't get the 787s fast enough and didn't wanna go with any kind of airbus either.
As someone who's worked closely with WS for years, I just don't see this as some game changer for them. I don't see this as a huge transformation. Sure the 787 opens new possibilities, but they could've flown to Japan from Vancouver with the 767 and haven't. Where are they gonna fly in South America? YVR-GRU? Doubtful. YVR-LIM? Doesn't make much sense. So to me it's only Asia and Europe, I think Asia is already fairly well served, think what you might of these mainland Chinese carriers or HK Airways, but they've beaten WS to the punch as being the secondary carriers to the legacy guys.
What I DO see this as...is a huge shot at Air Transat. WS can and will compete with them on these european routes. Currently WS can only compete with them on the LGW route, but now fuhgettaboutit. They can take all their feed traffic and send them overseas on these birds which while they may be a bit uncomfortable and with less service, will still be a better option than transat. They'll fly daily to multiple spots, 3x weekly to others, meanwhile TS doesn't offer that and doesn't offer the connecting service. Wanna fly to CDG from YVR? Hope you like flying on a Tuesday (for example). Now I know TS has that built in package advantage that some people like...but I think the advantages WS has will trump that.
Your move Transat.
To me, they can take this either way...they can either become part of an alliance a legacy type carrier with true business class, multiple long haul destinations etc.
However, based on the announcement of their ULCC division or whatever u wanna call it, I'd suggest they're going the other way. They're gonna try to be Scoot or Nok Air, whatever. They'll cram this thing with as many seats as possible, the "J" will be basically what it is on the garbage 767s now. The long haul routes will be mainly the touristy ones...LGW, ORY, FCO/VCE, and the like.
I'm not sure the barriers to entry to joining some of these alliances, but I know most of the time they want to have some synchronicity across the different airlines. How much of a drop down does a CX J passenger see when they arrive in Vancouver and then jump on an aircraft to YUL? I certainly wouldn't wanna be a customer of a full service airline then connecting on to an LCC.
The 767s were a joke to begin with, but my guess is they wanted to jump right into the long haul and couldn't get the 787s fast enough and didn't wanna go with any kind of airbus either.
As someone who's worked closely with WS for years, I just don't see this as some game changer for them. I don't see this as a huge transformation. Sure the 787 opens new possibilities, but they could've flown to Japan from Vancouver with the 767 and haven't. Where are they gonna fly in South America? YVR-GRU? Doubtful. YVR-LIM? Doesn't make much sense. So to me it's only Asia and Europe, I think Asia is already fairly well served, think what you might of these mainland Chinese carriers or HK Airways, but they've beaten WS to the punch as being the secondary carriers to the legacy guys.
What I DO see this as...is a huge shot at Air Transat. WS can and will compete with them on these european routes. Currently WS can only compete with them on the LGW route, but now fuhgettaboutit. They can take all their feed traffic and send them overseas on these birds which while they may be a bit uncomfortable and with less service, will still be a better option than transat. They'll fly daily to multiple spots, 3x weekly to others, meanwhile TS doesn't offer that and doesn't offer the connecting service. Wanna fly to CDG from YVR? Hope you like flying on a Tuesday (for example). Now I know TS has that built in package advantage that some people like...but I think the advantages WS has will trump that.
Your move Transat.
WOW, and other euro low cost carriers. Talking to one of DY's sales folk at the Freddies, Canada is not even on their wish list for the time being.
Totally disagree on your Transat theory. People will go where its cheeper. Transat is O and D, they do not rely on connection traffic, so point is moot. Service on TS is way better on board than WS, and I doubt the hard product that WS will be much of an improvement. Transit is home grown in Quebec, there is a huge local advantage. What Transat will have to do now is to get some new planes to replace the 310's.
Last edited by yul36; May 2, 2017 at 7:25 pm
May 2, 2017, 8:36 pm
#19
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I've read that the Asian flights may be YYC-based since YVR is already well served. Europe likely from both YYC and YYZ year round. Remember, WS could do LGW year round from YVR but doesn't. Lots of competition in YVR, but not so much in YYC. Price sensitive pax in YVR won't mind the backtracking to YYC (others won't, but those aren't likely the WS target anyway).
May 2, 2017, 10:10 pm
#21
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Go to 4:21 of this video:
http://www.bnn.ca/investing/video/we...r-plan~1113878
http://www.bnn.ca/investing/video/we...r-plan~1113878
May 2, 2017, 10:25 pm
#22
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 468
I am incredibly confused by WestJet's moves as of late. Encore isn't fully built out yet (still have 7 planes on order), last week's announcement of ULCC launch and now an expansion to a wide body network that hasn't really been developed yet. Far too many tentacles growing in different directions all at once - sound like a disaster waiting to happen.
As the 767's will likely be retired once the 787's arrive, it's also intriguing to see where WestJet is focusing their capital....10 737NG transitioning to new ULCC while 15 MAX will no longer join the mainline fleet. What does this say about their thoughts on mainline business???
As the 767's will likely be retired once the 787's arrive, it's also intriguing to see where WestJet is focusing their capital....10 737NG transitioning to new ULCC while 15 MAX will no longer join the mainline fleet. What does this say about their thoughts on mainline business???
May 2, 2017, 10:33 pm
#23
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Go to 4:21 of this video:
http://www.bnn.ca/investing/video/we...r-plan~1113878
http://www.bnn.ca/investing/video/we...r-plan~1113878
May 2, 2017, 10:36 pm
#24
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May 2, 2017, 10:55 pm
#25
Join Date: Mar 2010
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As the 767's will likely be retired once the 787's arrive, it's also intriguing to see where WestJet is focusing their capital....10 737NG transitioning to new ULCC while 15 MAX will no longer join the mainline fleet. What does this say about their thoughts on mainline business???
The MAX firm orders have been reduced from 45 to 30 and the options increased from 20 to 35. This will allow fleet flexibility as the widebodies come online, to control ASM growth at an appropriate rate, this will also be balanced with NG lease returns and aircraft transfer to the LCC. Due to MAX and NG arrivals (11 + 2 before the end of 2018), there are enough NG lease returns that can be channeled to build the ULCC instead of returning them over the next couple of years without affecting mainline narrow body capacity.
May 2, 2017, 11:04 pm
#26
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The 767s were planned to have about a 5 year lifespan in the fleet, so as the 787s start arriving in early 2019, the 767s will likely overlap for a couple of years until at least most of the 10 firm 787s have been received, allowing a continuous and consistent widebody ASM growth.
The MAX firm orders have been reduced from 45 to 30 and the options increased from 20 to 35. This will allow fleet flexibility as the widebodies come online, to control ASM growth at an appropriate rate, this will also be balanced with NG lease returns and aircraft transfer to the LCC. Due to MAX and NG arrivals (11 + 2 before the end of 2018), there are enough NG lease returns that can be channeled to build the ULCC instead of returning them over the next couple of years without affecting mainline narrow body capacity.
The MAX firm orders have been reduced from 45 to 30 and the options increased from 20 to 35. This will allow fleet flexibility as the widebodies come online, to control ASM growth at an appropriate rate, this will also be balanced with NG lease returns and aircraft transfer to the LCC. Due to MAX and NG arrivals (11 + 2 before the end of 2018), there are enough NG lease returns that can be channeled to build the ULCC instead of returning them over the next couple of years without affecting mainline narrow body capacity.
May 2, 2017, 11:23 pm
#27
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
Gregg stated -800s from the existing fleet, so most likely existing NG 737-800s with the maximum certified 189 seats, the MAX configs for aircraft this year are already set with ovens and IFEC, so the NGs will have a lower spec more suited to the ULCC. As there are very few -800s without IFEC at the moment, it is likely the ULCC will have WestJet Connect, as a demod would be expensive, so better to offer it as a service in the ULCC aircraft.
May 3, 2017, 1:13 am
#28
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That's exactly the point. WS can take a bunch of the LGW (example) traffic from TS then fill the rest of the plane with people who have no chance to fly transat, ie: YLW, YXS, YMM, YYJ etc. They can use their own feed to make this a better proposition. I think they can also offer a more "friendly/consistent" product than Transat. People know WS, people who fly occasionally to Toronto or Calgary often fly WS, if the price is anywhere near comparable, they'll flock to WS for this. Transat is STRICTLY booking people from YVR-LGW and maybe a few people who are willing to drive to YVR to make it. I'm not saying Transat doesn't have a place NOW. I'm just not sure they'll have a place once WS can make these more frequent.
May 3, 2017, 9:27 am
#29
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