BenjaminNYC

I agree Z should be upgradeable. I think it's deplorable how UA treats Z fares. But something is wrong if you're paying $14k for Z on this route. Must be part of a larger ticket...???

ugs/dca/iad

No. The entire itineary is DCA-ORD-PEK-IAD.

ugs/dca/iad

Have you ever flown nonstop IAD-PEK or checked fares on this route??? I have flown it several times since the route was initiated about a year and a half ago and usually the only business fare offered is a C fare at $17K+, slightly less if you travel on off days, i.e. something like Tuesdays and Wednesdays.

The whole point of my posts is that the Z fare on this particular route is not much of a discount, which is why I think it should be upgradeable.

mauiUAflyer

A quick-and-dirty peek on .bomb shows non-refundable Biz fares in the $8-$10 k region, with refundable ~$13k. (WAS-PEK-WAS). Not knowing dates/exact requirements, can't reproduce your PNR. Obviously, your milage does vary. Maybe you could re-fare to a D or C fare, and upgrade?

mahasamatman

Have you ever read what I and others have posted? I've never flown the route (and never will), but I have checked fares. Obviously your travel requirements don't fit the cheapest fare restrictions. You're paying more than an upgredeable D fare, so you must be doing something wrong. See all the other posts above as well - others are finding significantly cheaper fares than you're paying as well.

ugs/dca/iad

I am traveling outbound on January 6 and when I booked a week ago no D fares were available and the C fare was ca $18K. So yes, if I had been willing to pay $4K more I could have booked a C fare and upgraded to F using a SWU.

I have used SWUs to upgrade to first on international flights many times. But except on routes to and from China I have never had to buy a full C fare to be able to do this. Normally I do it from a D fare and usually the discount is more than the 25% reflected in the Z fare I have purchased for this route at this time.

ugs/dca/iad

I have read everything posted. I have not seen any evidence that anyone has found a fare cheaper on UA than I have paid on the DCA-ORD-PEK-IAD (UA 609-UA851-UA898)routing, outbound Jan 6 returning Jan 10. My ticket was purchased December 24, 13 days prior to departure.

Not many years ago you could fly from the US east coast to China (vis SFO or ORD) and back for $5-6K in business on a full C fare and get an upgrade as well. Today there are circumstances, described in detail above and in prior posts, where C and D fares are not available and even a Z fare is an absurd $14K and upgrades are not allowed.

Law Lord

I haven't done any searching for fares to and from Beijing, but I have done some playing around with .bomb's flexible dates search for C-class fares to European and other Asian destinations, and have found a consistent large discount if the return is at least 1 week after the origin, which every time I've booked it comes out as a Z fare. One reason your discount isn't large is that you're returning less than a week after you leave.

ugs/dca/iad

I believe your are mistaken in your assertion that there are never D fares if Z fares are available, at least for international travel. International D fares are available only for tickets with outbound travel Monday through Friday and return travel Sunday through Thursday. Z fares (if/when they are available), on the other hand, are not subject to this restriction. Since my return on this trip is on a Saturday I am stuck with a non-upgradable Z fare of $13,980.44. If I were to return on Sunday I coiuld get an upgradable D fare for $14,544.45. At this stratospheric price range I fail to understand why a differential of only $564.01 (which is less than 4 percent) determines whether or not a fare is upgradable. The additional $564.01 is not an obstacle for me but I don't want to spend an extra day in Beijing on this trip in order to be eligible for the D fare, especially since this will be my second trip to Beijing in less than four weeks. The alternative of paying an additional $4,792.01 for an upgradable C fare is an obstacle for me. Yes, the C fare Washington-Beijing and return on the days I am flying is $18,772.45! UA is losing lots of business class passengers on this route who are flying Korean and other airlines, all of whom are offering business fares for around $9,000. A slightly inconvenient connection is worth saving ca $9,000 for many transpac passengers.

In short, I understand why UA doesn't want to allow upgrades to first to those traveling on deeply discounted Z fares. But when the Z fare is less than 5% below the D fare on a specific route I fail to understand why the D fare can be ugraded but the Z fare can not.

mauiUAflyer

This isn't the case with D fares. I just purchased a ticket LAX-IAD-EZE with outbound on a Saturday, return on a Saturday. It is a D fare, and it is "upgrade eligible". I'm waitlisted both directions using SWU's.

Z fares are for (generally) 7 day or longer stays, with a ~50 day advanced purchase. I had also been considering them for my trip.

The difference in fares was greater than 5% in this case...

Ari

Did you check to make sure the $9k D fare you found isn't only for TATL routings?

SFflyer123

I have read in my money/financial magazines that the economy will take a huge hit on business class travel in 2009. This, theoretically, should lower the prices of business class fares. I think UA is also bracing for this; hence the NC=0 for the summer. They probably know that they're going to have to drop their business class fares big time in order to compete, so they may figure that they will try to sell them all. But from what these magazines predict (for what it's worth), business class fares should plummet this year.

mahasamatman

Maybe the ones you're looking at, but not universally true.

No, I don't have access to the routing rules. And even if it is restricted, it's still an option.

SF1K

Does anyone know if there is a Z fare published for the SFO-AMS market? It would be for travel over New Year's 2009/2010 - so can't book for another month or so anyway, but just thought I'd ask as I'm only seeing 1 upgrade seat available on flights in the future and I would be willing to buy one Z fare and one SWU upgradeable fare.

Thanks.

SJPaul

It looks like there's a 50-day advance Z fare filed for $3700-ish.

http://www.farecompare.com/flights/-...lDate=20090815