award for medical assistance?
Mar 9, 2004, 11:39 am
#31
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by UnitedBozo:
Come on take it easy on the doc. He was told by others he might be compensated, and he hasnt been. He has a legitamate question, and FT is exactly the place for this kind of question.
From what I understand he is not insisting on anything, but rather was lead to believe that UA has set compensation for such occurances.
Now, if indeed UA has no set compensation for such an event, and the doc gets beligerant that he wants an SWU or something, then I think you can call him whatever is meant by all those starts - *******. </font>
Come on take it easy on the doc. He was told by others he might be compensated, and he hasnt been. He has a legitamate question, and FT is exactly the place for this kind of question.
From what I understand he is not insisting on anything, but rather was lead to believe that UA has set compensation for such occurances.
Now, if indeed UA has no set compensation for such an event, and the doc gets beligerant that he wants an SWU or something, then I think you can call him whatever is meant by all those starts - *******. </font>
As I said in an earlier post or, maybe it was the dupe thread?, If the flight crew past on your information and the details of the event to a supervisor and IF the supervisor passed it on to customer relations, you will get a thank you. There are a couple of BIG if's in that last sentance.
I don't believe any airline would not be thankful for a Doctor or Nurse helping out in an emergency or semi-emergency type situation. So if you don't get a Thank you note, it was probably because the information got lost in the red tape.
Yes to the Doctor above if it was myself or a loved one I would want you to help anyway you could. I (not the airline) would be trying to find out your information so I could send a personal Thank you and to see if I could do anything for you or your family.
Mar 9, 2004, 11:45 am
#32
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CollegeFlyer:
Is your position that "no one is expected to respond" changed now that the doctor has explained he was approached personally at his seat and asked to help?
Also, what's this about an oath? If you refer to the Hippocratic Oath, read it before you cite it. It says only that the physician is to take care of "him who taught me this Art" and teach medicine to his sons "without fee or stipulation." That is LIMITED TO "him who taught me this Art"--that is, the physician should not bill his teacher. This is a reasonable promise.
The remainder of the oath, however, stresses DOING NO HARM.
There is nothing about being OBLIGATED to help, or of following Good-Samaritan mandates.
It does say that the physician will aim to offer help--but does not say that this help should be free (whereas helping his teacher, which is specifically required to be free--this was not merely an oversight).
There is certainly nothing about being on-call 24/7 to provide free services without expecting compensation even while putting onself in harm's way (both because of risk of injury/illness and by placing oneself at risk for liability lawsuits).
Two versions of the text for your reference.
http://www.euthanasia.com/oathtext.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors...classical.html</font>
Is your position that "no one is expected to respond" changed now that the doctor has explained he was approached personally at his seat and asked to help?
Also, what's this about an oath? If you refer to the Hippocratic Oath, read it before you cite it. It says only that the physician is to take care of "him who taught me this Art" and teach medicine to his sons "without fee or stipulation." That is LIMITED TO "him who taught me this Art"--that is, the physician should not bill his teacher. This is a reasonable promise.
The remainder of the oath, however, stresses DOING NO HARM.
There is nothing about being OBLIGATED to help, or of following Good-Samaritan mandates.
It does say that the physician will aim to offer help--but does not say that this help should be free (whereas helping his teacher, which is specifically required to be free--this was not merely an oversight).
There is certainly nothing about being on-call 24/7 to provide free services without expecting compensation even while putting onself in harm's way (both because of risk of injury/illness and by placing oneself at risk for liability lawsuits).
Two versions of the text for your reference.
http://www.euthanasia.com/oathtext.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors...classical.html</font>
The Doc never told us he was approached. So yes that's different, and yes I agree the Doc is not on call 24/7 and should not expect to provide free services. So maybe like it was suggested before the Doc should send a bill to the family.
Thanks Collegeflyer for putting me in my place!
Mar 9, 2004, 12:03 pm
#33
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Flybride:
If the flight crew past on your information and the details of the event to a supervisor and IF the supervisor passed it on to customer relations, you will get a thank you. There are a couple of BIG if's in that last sentance.
I don't believe any airline would not be thankful for a Doctor or Nurse helping out in an emergency or semi-emergency type situation. So if you don't get a Thank you note, it was probably because the information got lost in the red tape.
Yes to the Doctor above if it was myself or a loved one I would want you to help anyway you could. I (not the airline) would be trying to find out your information so I could send a personal Thank you and to see if I could do anything for you or your family.
</font>
If the flight crew past on your information and the details of the event to a supervisor and IF the supervisor passed it on to customer relations, you will get a thank you. There are a couple of BIG if's in that last sentance.
I don't believe any airline would not be thankful for a Doctor or Nurse helping out in an emergency or semi-emergency type situation. So if you don't get a Thank you note, it was probably because the information got lost in the red tape.
Yes to the Doctor above if it was myself or a loved one I would want you to help anyway you could. I (not the airline) would be trying to find out your information so I could send a personal Thank you and to see if I could do anything for you or your family.
</font>
Mar 9, 2004, 12:33 pm
#34
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Interesting thread, but I don't understand what everyone is getting so upset about.
NOWHERE in the doctor's original post is there any indication that he/she feels entitled to compensation. All he/she is asking is what to expect, IF ANYTHING.
Seems like a reasonable thing to ask to me. And if the answer is "you should expect nothing" then that's the answer. No biggie. Let's not put words in the doc's mouth.
Doc - thanks for your help. If anything, you should get a thank you from that kid's family, and the other passengers for helping to avoid the flight being diverted.
The airline however has nothing to do with the situation, IMHO.
I don't think you should realistically bank on anything from United (although it's certainly possible). If you were sharing a cab with someone and they suddenly needed medical attention and you helped them - would you expect compensation from the cab company? What about if you helped someone who passed out in a Wal-Mart. Would you expect compensation from Wal-Mart?
Some people's answers to these questions may very well be "yes", I'm just throwing it out there.
If you could "revive" United out of bankruptcy, then you would deserve a thank you from United.
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"I just wanna wish you good luck, we're all counting on you"
-Dr. Rumack
NOWHERE in the doctor's original post is there any indication that he/she feels entitled to compensation. All he/she is asking is what to expect, IF ANYTHING.
Seems like a reasonable thing to ask to me. And if the answer is "you should expect nothing" then that's the answer. No biggie. Let's not put words in the doc's mouth.
Doc - thanks for your help. If anything, you should get a thank you from that kid's family, and the other passengers for helping to avoid the flight being diverted.
The airline however has nothing to do with the situation, IMHO.
I don't think you should realistically bank on anything from United (although it's certainly possible). If you were sharing a cab with someone and they suddenly needed medical attention and you helped them - would you expect compensation from the cab company? What about if you helped someone who passed out in a Wal-Mart. Would you expect compensation from Wal-Mart?
Some people's answers to these questions may very well be "yes", I'm just throwing it out there.
If you could "revive" United out of bankruptcy, then you would deserve a thank you from United.
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"I just wanna wish you good luck, we're all counting on you"
-Dr. Rumack
Mar 9, 2004, 12:42 pm
#35
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by g_leyser:
If you were sharing a cab with someone and they suddenly needed medical attention and you helped them - would you expect compensation from the cab company? What about if you helped someone who passed out in a Wal-Mart. Would you expect compensation from Wal-Mart?</font>
If you were sharing a cab with someone and they suddenly needed medical attention and you helped them - would you expect compensation from the cab company? What about if you helped someone who passed out in a Wal-Mart. Would you expect compensation from Wal-Mart?</font>
But those situations do seem a bit different. In the cab situation, the driver could have driven the passenger to a hospital. Similarly, Wal-Mart could have called an ambulance and effectively washed its hands of the situation.
An aircraft in mid-air, however, has no way to immediately transfer a passenger to a third party for urgent medical assistance, which is why they had to look on their passenger manifests, point out a doctor, and call him to work.
Mar 9, 2004, 3:04 pm
#36
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After reading this entire thread, I must say that although the doctor says that he didn't ASK for anything, he is coming across as if he EXPECTS something for doing, what imo, is the "right" and "honorable" thing to do as one human being to another.
Then to read later that this involved a very sick child well. . I can't believe that there would be any question whatsoever as to what you need to do. Sheesh. . .I agree with RobotDoctor what is the world coming to when there would even be a post about this? You were bothered while sleeping in C to help a sick child and now you're bothered by this? I'm, to say the least, *perplexed* and very disappointed.
As far as the poster who states that you work 65 hours, train for years, etc. you chose to go into this profession. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to do so. I don't think that has relevance to this story. Also, I would agree that the doctor should delete his title so that in the future he won't be interrupted or called upon to assist in any way.
As far as UA providing you something - call Customer Relations - explain the story and that the FA on the flight had mentioned some type of compensation. You were just following up.
I think the main point that is missing here is that helping another human being (especially on a flight - it's not as if there are multiple options of places to go or lots of people to help) is just the honorable thing to do imo. I'm sad to read that this is even up for questioning and that it's all about receiving something for doing something *sigh*
Then to read later that this involved a very sick child well. . I can't believe that there would be any question whatsoever as to what you need to do. Sheesh. . .I agree with RobotDoctor what is the world coming to when there would even be a post about this? You were bothered while sleeping in C to help a sick child and now you're bothered by this? I'm, to say the least, *perplexed* and very disappointed.
As far as the poster who states that you work 65 hours, train for years, etc. you chose to go into this profession. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to do so. I don't think that has relevance to this story. Also, I would agree that the doctor should delete his title so that in the future he won't be interrupted or called upon to assist in any way.
As far as UA providing you something - call Customer Relations - explain the story and that the FA on the flight had mentioned some type of compensation. You were just following up.
I think the main point that is missing here is that helping another human being (especially on a flight - it's not as if there are multiple options of places to go or lots of people to help) is just the honorable thing to do imo. I'm sad to read that this is even up for questioning and that it's all about receiving something for doing something *sigh*
Mar 9, 2004, 3:53 pm
#37
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Give the good doctor a break. He's just asking. I don't read that he's expecting anything - he just said that there were other MDs onboard yet the FAs approached him, not the others. He did assist and took the so-called "risks." He's just wondering if there were any compensation he could expect.
He's a good man in my book. There are MDs out there who do decline to help.
This forum is made for questions such as this. Be nice.
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Talk is cheap. Supply exceeds Demand.
He's a good man in my book. There are MDs out there who do decline to help.
This forum is made for questions such as this. Be nice.
------------------
Talk is cheap. Supply exceeds Demand.
Mar 9, 2004, 4:19 pm
#38
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If I may chip in. In my last 10 years, I've encountered more than 10 medical calls on UA and SQ. I've volunteered for each with my involvement anywhere b/n 20mins to the rest of the long haul flight. Each time I ended up taking charge of the situation and liasing with the Captain, Pursor and FAs. And here are some of my observations:
1. UA may occasionally send you a thank you letter but never more. The twice I received a letter was both authorized through the Captain and Flight Operations.
2. UA FAs have been helpful at an acceptable level (in my opinion) in 60-70% of the time, but often I get stuck with the patient by myself for extended duration. Often with no urge to assist or review the situation unless I approach them.
3. When the aircraft lands, FAs all just dispurse ASAP, often without a thank. But occasionally strike up a higher level of service in the cabin I am seated in.
4. A few UA FAs (3-4) remembered me on another flight some months and years back.
5. UA's medical kit is bearest of the minimum. BP by auscultation is never possible with the cheap stethoscope provided and in the noise environment.
6. SQ has a medical kit that rivals a basic ER in terms available drugs and equipment. Apart from the defibrillator (never had to open that one), they have electronic BP cuffs.
7. There is always at least one SQ FA assigned to me should I need to stay with the patient. Although junior, the convenience is there.
8. SQ's chief pursor and many other members in the cabin would also come through to thank me after the event. A follow up letter from HQ in 80% of those cases. And it's usually through Customer Relations or a related department.
9. One of the SQ FA would always come later to thank me with either a substantial chosen gift (from the duty free catalogue) or a gift voucher of decent value for use then or at a later date.
10. I have never been able to move a patient up to a sleeper seat (C or F) on UA in those specific cases where I considered one is necessary (n=2). But on SQ, a request for move was implemented once I voiced my opinion and reason (n=1). And in all three cases, there were empty seats upfront. In one, UA couldn't or wouldn't even vacate a row of 3 or 4 seats in Y so that a patient with angina could lie down or get more room.
11. I have encountered a young doctor who also helped in a case. She did ask SQ for favours and was moved up from Y to C. She also received a gift.
Although it comes close, this isn't meant to be a bash of UA's medical standards but a personal experience based report. To say the least, I am totally impressed with SQ's medical in-flight support and is my #1 choice in that department. It is also important to note that I have never asked for anything in return for my services from either airlines and what favours I received were always initiated from their end.
Well, let the discussions begin.
1. UA may occasionally send you a thank you letter but never more. The twice I received a letter was both authorized through the Captain and Flight Operations.
2. UA FAs have been helpful at an acceptable level (in my opinion) in 60-70% of the time, but often I get stuck with the patient by myself for extended duration. Often with no urge to assist or review the situation unless I approach them.
3. When the aircraft lands, FAs all just dispurse ASAP, often without a thank. But occasionally strike up a higher level of service in the cabin I am seated in.
4. A few UA FAs (3-4) remembered me on another flight some months and years back.
5. UA's medical kit is bearest of the minimum. BP by auscultation is never possible with the cheap stethoscope provided and in the noise environment.
6. SQ has a medical kit that rivals a basic ER in terms available drugs and equipment. Apart from the defibrillator (never had to open that one), they have electronic BP cuffs.
7. There is always at least one SQ FA assigned to me should I need to stay with the patient. Although junior, the convenience is there.
8. SQ's chief pursor and many other members in the cabin would also come through to thank me after the event. A follow up letter from HQ in 80% of those cases. And it's usually through Customer Relations or a related department.
9. One of the SQ FA would always come later to thank me with either a substantial chosen gift (from the duty free catalogue) or a gift voucher of decent value for use then or at a later date.
10. I have never been able to move a patient up to a sleeper seat (C or F) on UA in those specific cases where I considered one is necessary (n=2). But on SQ, a request for move was implemented once I voiced my opinion and reason (n=1). And in all three cases, there were empty seats upfront. In one, UA couldn't or wouldn't even vacate a row of 3 or 4 seats in Y so that a patient with angina could lie down or get more room.
11. I have encountered a young doctor who also helped in a case. She did ask SQ for favours and was moved up from Y to C. She also received a gift.
Although it comes close, this isn't meant to be a bash of UA's medical standards but a personal experience based report. To say the least, I am totally impressed with SQ's medical in-flight support and is my #1 choice in that department. It is also important to note that I have never asked for anything in return for my services from either airlines and what favours I received were always initiated from their end.
Well, let the discussions begin.
Mar 9, 2004, 6:59 pm
#39
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To those who don't believe the thread starter was expecting anything, let us review the first post of the thread with emphasis added:
Just bill the patient and be done with it.
If I or my wife or kids ever need medical assistance on a plane, we appreciate any assistance, but I do EXPECT a bill and I will pay it, no questions asked.
[This message has been edited by JS (edited Mar 09, 2004).]
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by maciek504:
I am a MD and have recently provided a 2hr patient care as a leading physician on the board of the UA plane heading from BKK to NRT. I was told by some passengers (some even described what they received from UA in the past for similar services) and UA FAs that I should be expecting a "thank you" note and some "reward" from UA soon. Have not received anything yet... Should I be expecting anything at all? I did even give up my C class seat for landing. Any comments, suggestions or advice?</font>
I am a MD and have recently provided a 2hr patient care as a leading physician on the board of the UA plane heading from BKK to NRT. I was told by some passengers (some even described what they received from UA in the past for similar services) and UA FAs that I should be expecting a "thank you" note and some "reward" from UA soon. Have not received anything yet... Should I be expecting anything at all? I did even give up my C class seat for landing. Any comments, suggestions or advice?</font>
If I or my wife or kids ever need medical assistance on a plane, we appreciate any assistance, but I do EXPECT a bill and I will pay it, no questions asked.
[This message has been edited by JS (edited Mar 09, 2004).]
Mar 9, 2004, 7:02 pm
#40
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Also, regarding a question earlier about why people in other professions don't bill for their services -- one time I did have a conversation with my seatmate about my line of work, but the TPA-ATL flight was over far too soon to finish the job (takes about two years), so I let him off the hook.
Mar 9, 2004, 7:17 pm
#41
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MillionMiles I like your style. If something ever happens to me I hope you are on my flight.
Mar 9, 2004, 7:22 pm
#42
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tfong007:
MillionMiles I like your style. If something ever happens to me I hope you are on my flight. </font>
MillionMiles I like your style. If something ever happens to me I hope you are on my flight. </font>
Mar 9, 2004, 7:28 pm
#43
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I meant no disrespect to the doctor. If you are not expecting compensation than why title the thread as you did. If UA (the FA) implied that something would be offered then I can understand. If I misinterpreted your intent then I apologize. However, if you read it then the implication is that you want to be compensated for doing the right thing. Maybe I am overreacting but there are some things more important than a business class seat and free travel.
Mar 9, 2004, 7:36 pm
#44
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Wish I wasn't out flying so I could have answered this earlier.
There is a section in our handbook that addresses this situation and outlines what we should do. Hopefully the paperwork you filled out was adequate. It doesn't sound like you filled out the "pink" Skykit form, but maybe you did. That is what medical personnel should be asked to fill out, return to us and we will send in.
I was working a flight the other day with a medical problem. I certainly HOPE the purser took care of this Dr., but I did not want to step on her toes (anymore than I already had, ha!) and ask her.
There is a section in our handbook that addresses this situation and outlines what we should do. Hopefully the paperwork you filled out was adequate. It doesn't sound like you filled out the "pink" Skykit form, but maybe you did. That is what medical personnel should be asked to fill out, return to us and we will send in.
I was working a flight the other day with a medical problem. I certainly HOPE the purser took care of this Dr., but I did not want to step on her toes (anymore than I already had, ha!) and ask her.
Mar 9, 2004, 7:37 pm
#45
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For heaven's sake. All you folks giving the doctor a hard time (and I'm talking to you RobotDoctor and ldsant ) should frankly go and spend six years in medical college.
Of course the Doctor helped the sick child. Of course s/he didn't stop to think before doing so (despite the rise of malpractice suits in the US). But it's still a job. And s/he was not at work. So the very least the UA Purser should have done was slipped him/her a couple of SWUs on the way off the plane. It's just a question of manners. Not expectation. Not payment. Just manners.
) should frankly go and spend six years in medical college.Of course the Doctor helped the sick child. Of course s/he didn't stop to think before doing so (despite the rise of malpractice suits in the US). But it's still a job. And s/he was not at work. So the very least the UA Purser should have done was slipped him/her a couple of SWUs on the way off the plane. It's just a question of manners. Not expectation. Not payment. Just manners.