... how do we fight back to UAL's latest devaluation of our points
#62
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Saipan, MP 96950 USA (Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands = the CNMI)
Programs: UA Silver, Hilton Silver. Life: UA .57 MM, United & Admirals Clubs (spousal), Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,445
Did you tell Chase why you cancelled? If not, it's not too late to send them a secure message through the Chase website you used to access the account.
#63
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: United Global Services, Amtrak Select Executive
Posts: 4,134
Noticed my United Quest has been getting multiple, even stackable, promotions lately. Currently I am getting 3x bonus on dining + 1,000 points a month for >$500 spend for the next three months + bonus miles for doing all 3 months, etc.
So they are trying to drive spend and transactions to United cards. Of course, all the extra bonus miles creates points inflation, so it is all part of the devaluation.
I burned down all my UA miles long ago. I keep a reasonable balance for when value opportunities strike but they are more a by-product of domestic travel I am doing then a concerted effort to collect points. Amex/Chase are where I try to amass points, but now I am even starting to question if cash-back card is a better option. I have Charles Schwab Amex Plat, so I guess that is a form of cash back. I have put thousands into my brokerage account lately.
So they are trying to drive spend and transactions to United cards. Of course, all the extra bonus miles creates points inflation, so it is all part of the devaluation.
I burned down all my UA miles long ago. I keep a reasonable balance for when value opportunities strike but they are more a by-product of domestic travel I am doing then a concerted effort to collect points. Amex/Chase are where I try to amass points, but now I am even starting to question if cash-back card is a better option. I have Charles Schwab Amex Plat, so I guess that is a form of cash back. I have put thousands into my brokerage account lately.
#64
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: None - previously UA
Posts: 4,930
I'm skeptical that a couple of us cancelling cards would be enough of a signal to them. I agree it's a good signal to send, they know a customer without a card is less engaged. But they have this whole grand scheme built around personalization and relationship management to minimize the cost of loyalty and maximize revenue from Mileage Plus. I suspect we're just noise around the edges.
#65
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 58,292
I'm skeptical that a couple of us cancelling cards would be enough of a signal to them. I agree it's a good signal to send, they know a customer without a card is less engaged. But they have this whole grand scheme built around personalization and relationship management to minimize the cost of loyalty and maximize revenue from Mileage Plus. I suspect we're just noise around the edges.
#66
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,785
This assertion about "inflation" has been made several times in this thread, but I am having trouble understanding the supposed mechanism. UA could give every MP account holder 100K miles tomorrow, and unless UA changes the miles required for redemptions (which UA has complete control over), there is zero point inflation at all. Unless I'm missing something, simply issuing more points--even vast numbers--doesn't have any effect on its own whatsoever on the value of a point.
I've said it before, but the one question I have about an airline run by FlyerTalkers is whether it would declare bankruptcy within six months of its inaugural flight or prior to flying at all. When your customers are demanding historically-low prices, with luxurious service and in-flight comfort, plus a significant refund in terms of free product, along with massive discounts for their repeated business, in a highly-unionized, highly-regulated environment with huge fixed and operating costs well, the customer isn't always right.
I'm disappointed -- but not surprised -- about the recent price changes. But the reaction appears to be over the top. If passengers were only flying UA because of the ability to fly for "free" (TANSTAAFL), well, UA doesn't want their custom, and if we're being honest with ourselves, we can see why. But very few passengers are forced to fly UA -- CNMI residents are, but Houston residents certainly aren't. If you value a nonstop flight more than participation in a "better" frequent flyer program, that's your choice -- but that's what it is, a choice. AA and DL both serve IAH.
#67
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: San Francisco
Programs: UA MM Plat, UA 1MM, Hilton Lifetime Gold, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold, CLEAR, AS MVP Gold
Posts: 3,665
The argument, such as it is, is that because miles are earned based upon spending, as airfare rises, so too will the number of miles in circulation. It's true as far as it goes, but like any one-variable analysis, it's a broad stroke at best.
That is to say, without the loaded terms, that they're "running a business."
I've said it before, but the one question I have about an airline run by FlyerTalkers is whether it would declare bankruptcy within six months of its inaugural flight or prior to flying at all. When your customers are demanding historically-low prices, with luxurious service and in-flight comfort, plus a significant refund in terms of free product, along with massive discounts for their repeated business, in a highly-unionized, highly-regulated environment with huge fixed and operating costs… well, the customer isn't always right.
I'm disappointed -- but not surprised -- about the recent price changes. But the reaction appears to be over the top. If passengers were only flying UA because of the ability to fly for "free" (TANSTAAFL), well, UA doesn't want their custom, and if we're being honest with ourselves, we can see why. But very few passengers are forced to fly UA -- CNMI residents are, but Houston residents certainly aren't. If you value a nonstop flight more than participation in a "better" frequent flyer program, that's your choice -- but that's what it is, a choice. AA and DL both serve IAH.
That is to say, without the loaded terms, that they're "running a business."
I've said it before, but the one question I have about an airline run by FlyerTalkers is whether it would declare bankruptcy within six months of its inaugural flight or prior to flying at all. When your customers are demanding historically-low prices, with luxurious service and in-flight comfort, plus a significant refund in terms of free product, along with massive discounts for their repeated business, in a highly-unionized, highly-regulated environment with huge fixed and operating costs… well, the customer isn't always right.
I'm disappointed -- but not surprised -- about the recent price changes. But the reaction appears to be over the top. If passengers were only flying UA because of the ability to fly for "free" (TANSTAAFL), well, UA doesn't want their custom, and if we're being honest with ourselves, we can see why. But very few passengers are forced to fly UA -- CNMI residents are, but Houston residents certainly aren't. If you value a nonstop flight more than participation in a "better" frequent flyer program, that's your choice -- but that's what it is, a choice. AA and DL both serve IAH.
Miles are another issue and as many have stated the pursuit to accumulate them has faded for multiple reasons.
#68
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: United Global Services, Amtrak Select Executive
Posts: 4,134
Yes, that part I understand. But what I don't understand is how an increase in number of miles in circulation can itself lead to "inflation" (by definition, a decrease in the purchasing power of miles). The only thing that can decrease the purchasing power of miles is UA changing redemption prices.
#69
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,785
Yes, that part I understand. But what I don't understand is how an increase in number of miles in circulation can itself lead to "inflation" (by definition, a decrease in the purchasing power of miles). The only thing that can decrease the purchasing power of miles is UA changing redemption prices.
I'm not sure I buy it, but that seems to be the argument.
#70
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 2,096
I don't think it's rocket science. What do you do in business when a vendor changes pricing and conditions? You re-assess the relationship. Sometimes, you can make a change, other times you just gotta take it on the chin because in spite of the negative change it's still the best option available.
#71
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DAY
Programs: UA 1K 1MM; Marriott LT Titanium; Amex MR; Chase UR; Hertz PC; Global Entry
Posts: 10,249
This assertion about "inflation" has been made several times in this thread, but I am having trouble understanding the supposed mechanism. UA could give every MP account holder 100K miles tomorrow, and unless UA changes the miles required for redemptions (which UA has complete control over), there is zero point inflation at all. Unless I'm missing something, simply issuing more points--even vast numbers--doesn't have any effect on its own whatsoever on the value of a point.
![Big Grin](https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Award miles aren't solely tied to costs of flights. Lot of bonus miles, credit card miles, etc. are flooding the "currency". I thought that was a cause of inflation, but maybe there is a better term? And it seems a reasonable assumption that when tons of miles are chasing a limited supply, then redemption costs will go up...just as they have.
Presumably the idea is that if more points are chasing the same number of award seats, the average price of awards will increase. There seems to be an idea that UA cares about having the liability of billions of miles on their books, so they'd raise prices in this scenario.
I'm not sure I buy it, but that seems to be the argument.
I'm not sure I buy it, but that seems to be the argument.
Or I wonder if miles are computed as more of a "cost to service" type of formula? I don't think I have heard much discussion on exactly how GAAP is applied to these.
#72
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 58,292
Yes, businesses have to make a profit in order to survive. I get that. But UA - and AA and DL - is no longer a business whose main goal is to transport people from point A to point B. That aspect of their operation is critical, of course, but where they really make their money is with credit cards and to a lesser extent, their so-called "loyalty" programs, which have devolved into the worst kind of "bait and switch" operation there is, short of an auto dealer, of course.
![Wink](https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif)
I still fly UA because of the professionalism of the flight and maintenance crews. But their front office? They aren't much better than the Boeing C suite these days, worshipping Wall Street and their bonuses over everything else.
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,785
I think businesses, in every industry, attempt to maximize profit, and that there is nothing unethical about not offering your best price up front in a negotiation. I choose not to denigrate either businessmen or customers by using offensive metaphors that suggest otherwise. Rather, I go into the transaction with open eyes, understanding that my interests are not aligned with the companies' interests, and that therefore it is my responsibility to ensure that I do not accept an offer that I later regret. Caveat emptor.
#74
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: CTU/TFU(Chengdu, Sichuan, China) - MIG (Mianyang, Sichuan, China) - EWR/JFK/LGA/HPN (Great New York City Metro Area, NY, USA) - HVN/BDL (New Haven/Hartford, CT, USA)
Programs: UA 1MM/F9 Diamond; Marriott Lifetime Gold; IHG Platinum; Choice Privileges Platinum
Posts: 984
There are still a few exotic routes and airports I want to experience which are not economical (even for economy class) to use my own money, where my remaining balance (over 300K miles) at MileagePlus will help make it happen. After that, except for situations where lounge access is critical (e.g., with long layover or in need of showers during the time at the airport), there is no special reason to fly UA or Star Alliance metal, but schedule and overall price will determine the choice of carriers.
I still feel lucky as I have been benefiting tremendously from the old good days of frequent flyer programs with different airlines including NW, DL, CO,UA and to a less extent with WN, AA and F9.
I still feel lucky as I have been benefiting tremendously from the old good days of frequent flyer programs with different airlines including NW, DL, CO,UA and to a less extent with WN, AA and F9.