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... how do we fight back to UAL's latest devaluation of our points

... how do we fight back to UAL's latest devaluation of our points

Old May 22, 2024, 5:02 am
  #46  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC, LON
Programs: *
Posts: 2,871
Originally Posted by malbik
Class action suit.

Corollary of Godwin's law- every internet griping thread eventually ends in a call for a class action suit. Sometimes invokes the need for Admiralty lawyers.
And an express violation of the terms and conditions of the MileagePlus program, which we all agreed to....
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Old May 22, 2024, 5:20 am
  #47  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 5,090
There's Nothing You Can Do

Honestly, nothing any of us does will slow the grinding wheels of devaluation. Their business model requires devaluation. Eventually, most mileage redemptions will be significantly below a penny per mile. Already, any place that I want to go has no availability for less than 300K miles each way for routings on which I can buy a rt for cash for 6K or less (and my domestic segments will be in F-something which never happens anymore for me on UA awards or PPs UGs with a domestic segment).
Sure, I see last-minute awards that are more reasonable regularly. Unfortunately, I run a business and just can't drop everything to fly somewhere just to try and get some value out of my miles. If it comes to that, I'll just donate them all.
zombietooth is offline  
Old May 22, 2024, 6:43 am
  #48  
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Houston, TX
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Posts: 2,882
Originally Posted by zombietooth
Honestly, nothing any of us does will slow the grinding wheels of devaluation. Their business model requires devaluation. Eventually, most mileage redemptions will be significantly below a penny per mile. Already, any place that I want to go has no availability for less than 300K miles each way for routings on which I can buy a rt for cash for 6K or less (and my domestic segments will be in F-something which never happens anymore for me on UA awards or PPs UGs with a domestic segment).
Sure, I see last-minute awards that are more reasonable regularly. Unfortunately, I run a business and just can't drop everything to fly somewhere just to try and get some value out of my miles. If it comes to that, I'll just donate them all.
they won't drop below a penny a mile as that is the minimum value on the chase pay yourself back.

It's just that the ticket prices will rise, requiring far more miles
Unitedloyalflyer is offline  
Old May 22, 2024, 6:53 am
  #49  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: None - previously UA
Posts: 4,954
Originally Posted by Unitedloyalflyer
they won't drop below a penny a mile as that is the minimum value on the chase pay yourself back.

It's just that the ticket prices will rise, requiring far more miles
The value of a cent has a built in devaluation, about 20% per year at the moment.
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Old May 22, 2024, 7:06 am
  #50  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 820
I find it weird that people still chase these things.

30 years ago when these miles were newish there were plenty of arbitrage opportunities. The miles produced outsized returns in many cases, and there was plenty of value.

Now? It is like people still think the airlines have to give us something for nothing. That shipped sailed a LONG time ago. Airlines know that the vast majority of people have no idea how the program works, and that the vocal minority that do are out of options when it comes to carrier choice.

The DL issue recently was particularly insightful. DL raised the diamond threshold to 28k (they wanted 35k). The flat out said there were too many diamonds. Yet the entire DL forum here erupted with anger. Sure DL lowered the threshold, but they never said they would accept the elevated level of diamond. In effect, they delayed the inevitable. And people actually went back to DL because they were hub captive. The people that got burned by the DL action were the ones flying the bare minimum to get to PL and then spending 25k on a credit card. Not exactly HVF material. Yet this was the vocal minority that drove much of the backlash.

Bottom line here is if you spend enough with a carrier they will give you plenty. GS/360/CK or whatever is available to every single person alive. We have to spend 50k+ on a carrier to get it though.
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FlyingBeanCounter is offline  
Old May 22, 2024, 7:12 am
  #51  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 700
Originally Posted by Bear96
Yes, that is my point. Which is why it is quite useless when people say things like "airlines make more money from selling CC points than they do from operating an airline." Not doing the latter makes the former impossible.
My point is that UA will feel a greater impact if UA cardholders cancel their cards (or at least stop using them), regardless of the relationship between its main business and its credit card business. Moreover, if Chase feels the impact, it surely will raise the issue with UA and it has a lot more leverage.
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Old May 22, 2024, 7:58 am
  #52  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: WAS
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Posts: 1,333
Miles earned are now based on spend and mileage redemptions are tied to ticket price, so assuming that inflation and fuel costs continue to rise, further devaluation seems inevitable. I am happy with Amex so far, and I also use Prime Visa for cash back. But that said, I am still giving business Amex and Chase, probably the two largest credit card companies offering airline/hotel cards, so they are still winning in the long run.
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Old May 22, 2024, 8:48 am
  #53  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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As someone who would barely make 1K in the past, I would never use miles unless I knew I had enough to reach my goal. That leaves me sitting on approx 2M rdm. If I include the "lost value" of the RDM, the "cost" of achieving 1K all these years is far higher.
My advice, use miles as fast as possible. Use CC for the benefits you want and thats all. (ie. GE reimbursement)
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Old May 22, 2024, 8:54 am
  #54  
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Join Date: Jul 2023
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Posts: 38
Originally Posted by cesco.g
"United Airlines has named Richard Nunn as its MileagePlus CEO, a newly-created position that will oversee the next chapter for the continued expansion of Uniteds industry-leading loyalty business."

Results are showing a little over one year on the job ...........
My thoughts exactly. Every move he has made is degrading the system.
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Old May 22, 2024, 8:54 am
  #55  
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Originally Posted by eng3
As someone who would barely make 1K in the past, I would never use miles unless I knew I had enough to reach my goal. That leaves me sitting on approx 2M rdm. If I include the "lost value" of the RDM, the "cost" of achieving 1K all these years is far higher.
My advice, use miles as fast as possible. Use CC for the benefits you want and thats all. (ie. GE reimbursement)
Yes I agree with 1.4 mill miles I've started using them up as quickly as I can. We accumulate about 600k a year in miles
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Old May 22, 2024, 8:57 am
  #56  
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Join Date: Jul 2023
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Originally Posted by zombietooth
Honestly, nothing any of us does will slow the grinding wheels of devaluation. Their business model requires devaluation. Eventually, most mileage redemptions will be significantly below a penny per mile. Already, any place that I want to go has no availability for less than 300K miles each way for routings on which I can buy a rt for cash for 6K or less (and my domestic segments will be in F-something which never happens anymore for me on UA awards or PPs UGs with a domestic segment).
Sure, I see last-minute awards that are more reasonable regularly. Unfortunately, I run a business and just can't drop everything to fly somewhere just to try and get some value out of my miles. If it comes to that, I'll just donate them all.
absolutely. Luckily I'm willing to gamble for a better flight last minute but it's a terrible scramble.
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Old May 22, 2024, 9:13 am
  #57  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Posts: 4,692
Originally Posted by FlyingBeanCounter
I find it weird that people still chase these things.

30 years ago when these miles were newish there were plenty of arbitrage opportunities. The miles produced outsized returns in many cases, and there was plenty of value.

Now? It is like people still think the airlines have to give us something for nothing. That shipped sailed a LONG time ago. Airlines know that the vast majority of people have no idea how the program works, and that the vocal minority that do are out of options when it comes to carrier choice.

The DL issue recently was particularly insightful. DL raised the diamond threshold to 28k (they wanted 35k). The flat out said there were too many diamonds. Yet the entire DL forum here erupted with anger. Sure DL lowered the threshold, but they never said they would accept the elevated level of diamond. In effect, they delayed the inevitable. And people actually went back to DL because they were hub captive. The people that got burned by the DL action were the ones flying the bare minimum to get to PL and then spending 25k on a credit card. Not exactly HVF material. Yet this was the vocal minority that drove much of the backlash.

Bottom line here is if you spend enough with a carrier they will give you plenty. GS/360/CK or whatever is available to every single person alive. We have to spend 50k+ on a carrier to get it though.
GS is a sad shell of what it once was.
ctownflyer is offline  
Old May 22, 2024, 9:33 am
  #58  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: IAD
Programs: UA 1K & 2MM, MR Titanium
Posts: 479
Originally Posted by FlyingBeanCounter
I find it weird that people still chase these things.

30 years ago when these miles were newish there were plenty of arbitrage opportunities. The miles produced outsized returns in many cases, and there was plenty of value.

Now? It is like people still think the airlines have to give us something for nothing. That shipped sailed a LONG time ago. Airlines know that the vast majority of people have no idea how the program works, and that the vocal minority that do are out of options when it comes to carrier choice.

The DL issue recently was particularly insightful. DL raised the diamond threshold to 28k (they wanted 35k). The flat out said there were too many diamonds. Yet the entire DL forum here erupted with anger. Sure DL lowered the threshold, but they never said they would accept the elevated level of diamond. In effect, they delayed the inevitable. And people actually went back to DL because they were hub captive. The people that got burned by the DL action were the ones flying the bare minimum to get to PL and then spending 25k on a credit card. Not exactly HVF material. Yet this was the vocal minority that drove much of the backlash.

Bottom line here is if you spend enough with a carrier they will give you plenty. GS/360/CK or whatever is available to every single person alive. We have to spend 50k+ on a carrier to get it though.
Good insights, particularly the part about how the majority of people don't know how the program works. In the case of MileagePlus, I agree with the majority opinion that benefits are being reduced over time. Rather than try to fight it, I accept it as inevitable given that frequent flyer programs were quite generous when created 30+ years ago, they created huge liabilities on airlines' balance sheets as the accrued miles were a liability that would have to be "paid out" at some point, and airlines thus had to find a way to reduce that liability. Given that devaluation of MP miles is inevitable and on-going, I prefer to focus on what opportunities to use them exist at a given time and not dwell on how much better it was in the past (e.g., the RT award tix to Asia in C for 90,000 miles that I redeemed 15 years ago). This year I have been able to book IAD - HND RT in C for 200k miles, whereas past attempts to find saver awards to Japan in C have been fruitless. One top of that, I got $2,000 spend towards next year's elite status (rather than 0 in the past). I have also found good availability of saver award tix in C from US to Europe for summer 2024 at 88k miles each and with good routings, in fact, I have rebooked the same ticket 6 times to get better routing and/or better dates for my travel. So I still find value in using UA miles despite the devaluations and I also prefer to use them now knowing if I wait they will only be devalued.

One side note, I have a bunch of DL miles accrued 30+ years ago (some actually PA miles that were transferred to my DL account when PA went out of business). I sat on those miles (actually forgot about them) as DL devalued over the years and figured I might never use them. This year, I suddenly realized that DL offers some very attractive domestic redemptions (under 5,000 miles) for domestic short haul and booked a few (basic economy, since I am not chasing DL status). At that rate, my stash of DL miles will provide 5+ years of attractive short haul redemptions when UA is too expensive or not as convenient. So even Sky Pesos are working for me!
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Last edited by lotemblizej; May 22, 2024 at 9:39 am
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Old May 22, 2024, 9:46 am
  #59  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Posts: 4,552
Originally Posted by zombietooth
Honestly, nothing any of us does will slow the grinding wheels of devaluation. Their business model requires devaluation. Eventually, most mileage redemptions will be significantly below a penny per mile. Already, any place that I want to go has no availability for less than 300K miles each way for routings on which I can buy a rt for cash for 6K or less (and my domestic segments will be in F-something which never happens anymore for me on UA awards or PPs UGs with a domestic segment).
Sure, I see last-minute awards that are more reasonable regularly. Unfortunately, I run a business and just can't drop everything to fly somewhere just to try and get some value out of my miles. If it comes to that, I'll just donate them all.
Yes, and add to that the inevitable spiral resulting from the airlines' switch to earnings from flying based on the ticket cost. Due to inflation, each redeemable mile is cheaper to earn (in terms of purchasing power), hence a further need to devalue miles even aside from the dynamic from mileage-earning credit cards.
mecabq is offline  
Old May 22, 2024, 9:56 am
  #60  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: UA GS, Hyatt LT G, Marriott LT T
Posts: 275
I canceled my UA quest card. it is annoying UA devalue its partner award chart without early announcement. Long time before, UA changed its way to release saver award for its metal. But partner award value is still decent. Now, almost all are gone except Japan domestic flight. Event it is not worth to redeem saver award upgraded by GS plus point.Ten years ago, I bought millions of UA miles @2 cents through booking. Now, I did not buy its miles for almost 7 years.

The most effective way is to cancel its credit card since mile devalue a lot.
willliamjia is offline  

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