Feb 9, 2019, 5:12 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread -- the active thread is United's Basic Economy - Discussion, Q&A, ...
Important Note: these fares became available 21 Feb 2017 for MSP for travel beginning 18 Apr 2017. More markets were added 19 April 2017 for travel starting 9 May 2017.
Related thread: Basic Economy Airport and Plane Experiences (First or Second Hand)
If you booked before the dates above, you did not have a BE fare. If purchased on united.com you will see a warning like:
4. MileagePlus members will earn full Premier qualifying dollars, 50% Premier qualifying miles and 0.5 Premier qualifying segments for each flight, as well as lifetime miles and toward the four-segment minimum.
Link to UA's description of how these fares will work: Basic Economy.
Here are the key facts:
related threads
New UA/*A TATL -LGT Economy fare - no free first bag, no changes/upgrades allowed
Benefit impact of restricted economy fares on UA Elites (Basic Econ, -LGT, Light Econ
Pre-announcement speculation thread (now closed) New "Budget Economy" fares
Important Note: these fares became available 21 Feb 2017 for MSP for travel beginning 18 Apr 2017. More markets were added 19 April 2017 for travel starting 9 May 2017.
Related thread: Basic Economy Airport and Plane Experiences (First or Second Hand)
If you booked before the dates above, you did not have a BE fare. If purchased on united.com you will see a warning like:
4. MileagePlus members will earn full Premier qualifying dollars, 50% Premier qualifying miles and 0.5 Premier qualifying segments for each flight, as well as lifetime miles and toward the four-segment minimum.
Link to UA's description of how these fares will work: Basic Economy.
Here are the key facts:
- No seat assignments until check-in. Seats will be assigned by the system and cannot be changed.*NEW* When purchasing a Basic Economy ticket, you will not receive a complimentary seat assignment but may be able to purchase advance seat assignments during booking and up until check-in opens. If you don’t purchase an advance seat assignment, your seat will be automatically assigned to you prior to boarding, and you won't be able to change your seat once it's been assigned.
- No guarantee of adjacent seats with companions
- No voluntary ticket changes after 24 hour purchase period
- Carry on limited to 1 personal item unless the customer is a MP Premier member, primary cardmember of a qualifying MileagePlus credit card, or Star Alliance *G
- Customers ineligible for carry-on who bring one to the gate will be charged a $25 convenience fee to gate-check in addition to standard baggage fees (source: @united twitter)
- Customers will not be eligible for Economy Plus or premium cabin upgrades. This includes all forms of upgrades (CPU,supported or purchased). Likewise for E+ access (elite or purchased).
- Customers will board in the last boarding group (currently Group 5) unless the customer is a MP Premier member, primary cardmember of a qualifying MileagePlus credit card, or Star Alliance *G
- Companions on same PNR will have same boarding group and carryon if one on the PNR has a waiver
- No combinability with regular economy fares or partner carriers. Interline travel is not permitted.
- Tickets will earn RDMs (based on fare and status), PQMs (50% of distance), PQSs (0.5), PQDs, in addition it will count for minimum 4 segment and lifetime miles (New as of Dec 2018)
- Basic Economy tickets will use booking code 'N'
- Online check-in only with paid checked bag, otherwise need to see a United representative to verify the onboard bag allowance and receive a boarding pass.
related threads
New UA/*A TATL -LGT Economy fare - no free first bag, no changes/upgrades allowed
Benefit impact of restricted economy fares on UA Elites (Basic Econ, -LGT, Light Econ
Pre-announcement speculation thread (now closed) New "Budget Economy" fares
United's Basic Economy - Discussion, Q&A, ... {Archive}
Dec 17, 2016, 11:59 am
#916
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,854
I have confirmed that Concur has the ability to present Basic Economy fares separately from regular economy fares, or exclude them from search results entirely (pushing you to regular economy fares). It is up to your corporate travel manager (possibly in concert with your travel management company) to decide whether or not they want their travelers to use Basic Economy fares and configure Concur accordingly.
Egencia (Expedia's corporate travel solution) tells me that they exclude Delta Basic Economy fares by default and plan to do so for United Basic Economy fares since neither are targeted to business travelers.
Egencia (Expedia's corporate travel solution) tells me that they exclude Delta Basic Economy fares by default and plan to do so for United Basic Economy fares since neither are targeted to business travelers.
It is. Unfortunately most companies are not right on top of things all the time and travel definitely may not be the highest priority for companies to change their policies.
The worry is that if by default the concur sites start showing these fares, it may take a year or more for some of these companies to "catchup" with the feedback. ....
The worry is that if by default the concur sites start showing these fares, it may take a year or more for some of these companies to "catchup" with the feedback. ....
Dec 17, 2016, 1:14 pm
#917
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: ORD
Programs: AA lifetime gold, United Mileage Plus silver, Marriott Platinum Elite
Posts: 503
You are missing the entire point.
UA does NOT want business flyers buying this fare, period. These are there to prod people to buy who wouldnt otherwise consider UA. So think of the once-a-year flyer, perhaps the family that does a once a year vacation, or a once a year visit to see grandma. Currently, they are flying, say, Frontier, Spirit or Allegiant. They want to try and reach out to these flyers. UA can say, for example, we have a fare that matches Spirit, plus better benefits (for example, you get a free snack and beverage on board). So these fares can fill the handful of empty seats on a given flight, and get them revenue they wouldn't have gotten otherwise.
These are not meant to be attractive to business flyers or FFs. That's why the no PQM, and no changes - most businesses realize they change tickets sometimes, and they'll come to the conclusion (if they don't see it initially, at some point), that the $20 (or whatever) savings on the base ticket won't make sense when one now has to check a bag (that's a loss of time, plus the savings will probably mostly dissipate) and when they need to make a change, they'll have to throw the ticket away and start from new. Or when their people arrive at their destination without rest because they had no way to avoid a middle seat in the back of the aircraft.
I rarely change tickets, but the savings would have to be quite big for me to consider one of these tickets - forget about the lack of PQM.
The point isn't to have current customers buying a lower fare, the idea is to get folks who would probably otherwise give the revenue to an LCC/ULCC to get it to UA instead.
UA does NOT want business flyers buying this fare, period. These are there to prod people to buy who wouldnt otherwise consider UA. So think of the once-a-year flyer, perhaps the family that does a once a year vacation, or a once a year visit to see grandma. Currently, they are flying, say, Frontier, Spirit or Allegiant. They want to try and reach out to these flyers. UA can say, for example, we have a fare that matches Spirit, plus better benefits (for example, you get a free snack and beverage on board). So these fares can fill the handful of empty seats on a given flight, and get them revenue they wouldn't have gotten otherwise.
These are not meant to be attractive to business flyers or FFs. That's why the no PQM, and no changes - most businesses realize they change tickets sometimes, and they'll come to the conclusion (if they don't see it initially, at some point), that the $20 (or whatever) savings on the base ticket won't make sense when one now has to check a bag (that's a loss of time, plus the savings will probably mostly dissipate) and when they need to make a change, they'll have to throw the ticket away and start from new. Or when their people arrive at their destination without rest because they had no way to avoid a middle seat in the back of the aircraft.
I rarely change tickets, but the savings would have to be quite big for me to consider one of these tickets - forget about the lack of PQM.
The point isn't to have current customers buying a lower fare, the idea is to get folks who would probably otherwise give the revenue to an LCC/ULCC to get it to UA instead.
I am pretty sure that updating concur is low on the list for my company (unless these are automatically excluded somehow ).
thats the fear. That by the time they catch up ..... we would have been forced to buy some of these and thus people like me having no incentive to buy United
Dec 17, 2016, 5:49 pm
#918
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Redwood City, CA USA (SFO/SJC)
Programs: 1K 2010, 1P in 2011, Plat for 2012,13,14,15 & 2016. Gold in 17 & 18, Plat since
Posts: 8,826
Think we've blown this out of proportion (in terms of FFers)
I think this is so much simpler than we're making of it.
It's all about trying to create an unbundled fare for the flyer who will always buy the cheapest-possible fare.
It gains from being as separate from the airline's mainstream offerings and benefits as possible. There is no incentive to blur distinctions. And it is in United's best interest to make sure biz travelers avoid it like the plague. Biz-friendly features have been deliberately stripped from it. To the extent that it really isn't going to work (for biz travel).
Ancillary revenue (from carry-on and other fees) will likely offset the reduction in ticket pricing.
I don't see this as a step towards LH "light" fares, where elites may have to pay for seat assignments etc. This is something entirely different, a way to selectively compete in a corridor in which UA can't leave but would like to have a competitive offering with the low-ballers.
It also sends a signal to DL and AA that UA isn't willing to engage in an unrestricted all-out fare war. This is measured response. A new tool that can be used if WN were to try something desperate. While WN (and others) might have previously thought UA might be willing to ignore some fare sales, they now have a way to match without much pain. Knowing that UA now has a way to compete can be seen as a way to pre-empt others from initiating a sale.
Agreed.
It's all about trying to create an unbundled fare for the flyer who will always buy the cheapest-possible fare.
It gains from being as separate from the airline's mainstream offerings and benefits as possible. There is no incentive to blur distinctions. And it is in United's best interest to make sure biz travelers avoid it like the plague. Biz-friendly features have been deliberately stripped from it. To the extent that it really isn't going to work (for biz travel).
Ancillary revenue (from carry-on and other fees) will likely offset the reduction in ticket pricing.
I don't see this as a step towards LH "light" fares, where elites may have to pay for seat assignments etc. This is something entirely different, a way to selectively compete in a corridor in which UA can't leave but would like to have a competitive offering with the low-ballers.
It also sends a signal to DL and AA that UA isn't willing to engage in an unrestricted all-out fare war. This is measured response. A new tool that can be used if WN were to try something desperate. While WN (and others) might have previously thought UA might be willing to ignore some fare sales, they now have a way to match without much pain. Knowing that UA now has a way to compete can be seen as a way to pre-empt others from initiating a sale.
Agreed.
Dec 17, 2016, 9:38 pm
#919
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,406
To the contrary, I expect that UA will raise fares across the board, and then introduce the N fares at the previous price point. They can do this as far up the fare ladder as they like. People who want the benefits of the regular fare -- e.g., E+ -- will have to eat the difference.
I see this as a stealth way to charge elites for E+ (and the possibility of an upgrade, and the PQMs). Personally, my main motivation for maintaining status is E+, because I take great pains to avoid flying in tight quarters pitch-wise. Previously, I'd take UA, even if it were somewhat more expensive compared to the other legacies, since I wouldn't have to pay for the seat selection. I'll still do the same, but the comparison point will be the regular economy fares, not the basic fares. (I refuse to fly F9, NK, or G4, regardless of price, due to the comfort factor alone.
Dec 18, 2016, 7:50 am
#920
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
You're assuming there will be a reduction. UA is already matching prices with LCCs, or nearly so, on a lot of routes -- currently, they tend to use the G fares for that.
To the contrary, I expect that UA will raise fares across the board, and then introduce the N fares at the previous price point. They can do this as far up the fare ladder as they like. People who want the benefits of the regular fare -- e.g., E+ -- will have to eat the difference.
To the contrary, I expect that UA will raise fares across the board, and then introduce the N fares at the previous price point. They can do this as far up the fare ladder as they like. People who want the benefits of the regular fare -- e.g., E+ -- will have to eat the difference.
The planes are full today, they're not trying to grab market share by luring LCC customers. They're trying to increase the revenue and margin on these flights where they've had to lower fares.
Dec 18, 2016, 8:47 am
#921
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: 1 thousand
Posts: 2,112
Yes. Anyone who thinks this is going to result in lower overall fares doesn't understand the business motivation here. UA is not just being nice to it's customers that don't need assigned seats and carry-ons. Either they raise rates across the board and the BE equals the current lowest (already competing with the with LCC's but with more benefits today) or they make up the difference in what I'm calling "required ancillary revenue", meaning most BE folks will have to check a bag now. Basically they become agnostic as to whether a customer buys a BE fare or the next higher fare.
The planes are full today, they're not trying to grab market share by luring LCC customers. They're trying to increase the revenue and margin on these flights where they've had to lower fares.
The planes are full today, they're not trying to grab market share by luring LCC customers. They're trying to increase the revenue and margin on these flights where they've had to lower fares.
Dec 18, 2016, 8:58 am
#922
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
The route question will be interesting. My guess is that they start these fares on routes where they've lowered rates to compete with the LCC's. I believe the priority is to increase margin on these flights. Assuming that goes well, and they meet the increased financial projections, I see no reason they wouldn't expand this to all routes. There's really no down-side to it for UA, unless customers book away to other airlines. But the limited roll out would test that.
Dec 18, 2016, 9:10 am
#923
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 14,888
You're assuming there will be a reduction. UA is already matching prices with LCCs, or nearly so, on a lot of routes -- currently, they tend to use the G fares for that.
To the contrary, I expect that UA will raise fares across the board, and then introduce the N fares at the previous price point. They can do this as far up the fare ladder as they like. People who want the benefits of the regular fare -- e.g., E+ -- will have to eat the difference.
I see this as a stealth way to charge elites for E+ (and the possibility of an upgrade, and the PQMs). Personally, my main motivation for maintaining status is E+, because I take great pains to avoid flying in tight quarters pitch-wise. Previously, I'd take UA, even if it were somewhat more expensive compared to the other legacies, since I wouldn't have to pay for the seat selection. I'll still do the same, but the comparison point will be the regular economy fares, not the basic fares. (I refuse to fly F9, NK, or G4, regardless of price, due to the comfort factor alone.
To the contrary, I expect that UA will raise fares across the board, and then introduce the N fares at the previous price point. They can do this as far up the fare ladder as they like. People who want the benefits of the regular fare -- e.g., E+ -- will have to eat the difference.
I see this as a stealth way to charge elites for E+ (and the possibility of an upgrade, and the PQMs). Personally, my main motivation for maintaining status is E+, because I take great pains to avoid flying in tight quarters pitch-wise. Previously, I'd take UA, even if it were somewhat more expensive compared to the other legacies, since I wouldn't have to pay for the seat selection. I'll still do the same, but the comparison point will be the regular economy fares, not the basic fares. (I refuse to fly F9, NK, or G4, regardless of price, due to the comfort factor alone.
I'm not expecting BE fares to be lower than the lowest today, I agree that they'll just use these to take away benefits (or unbundle)to better match ULCC benefits at the lowest fares where they are competing. I'd say this is more of evolution of the fare system as opposed to a stealth way to charge elites for what they get today, much like the re-alignment of benefits you have seen with FF programs over the past few years (yes, I'm sure a lot here will just say devaluation). In the beginning, these programs were strictly about loyalty, and weren't focused on being profitable on their own. Then they became marketing programs, and most recently, more focused at adding to the profit as opposed to loyalty at any cost (re-evaluating benefits by level, putting a minimum cost on each level, etc.). I don't think we're done with that yet - we'll likely see a day in the not too distant future where PQM will also align with spend like RDM is now (don't shoot the messenger - if you think the loyalty folks at the carriers haven't thought of this already, trust me, they have).
I'm sure there will be more of this on the fare scale as well, and maybe even an amendment to add-ons one can get with BE - for example, perhaps a way to pay for a seat assignment in advance, get PQMs on your BE fare for $X, or,as the media are saying now, actuallycharge for the ability to bring a regular-size carry on. There are other things one can do to unbundle as well - at one point, AC allowed you to, IIRC, reduce your (Tango) fare a bit if you agreed not to check any bags, add to it a bit to earn full miles, etc.
Dec 18, 2016, 9:52 am
#924
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
I don't think we're done with that yet - we'll likely see a day in the not too distant future where PQM will also align with spend like RDM is now (don't shoot the messenger - if you think the loyalty folks at the carriers haven't thought of this already, trust me, they have).
The rest of your post I completely agree with!
Dec 18, 2016, 9:54 am
#925
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Businesses got caught out when DL rolled out its E fares. The nuance of fare rules escapes people who do not travel frequently and the people who make policy do not travel a great deal. But, it is unlikely that this will repeat itself.
I also suspect that UA is carefully warning its corporate customers to avoid the brand damage DL did to itself.
All of this ensures one thing. People without status sitting in the cheap seats won't take up the limited OH space, even if you are on a tight connection. No matter what the rules and no matter how well-enforced, the average narrow-body can't acommodate the # of compliant carryons. So, somebody loses. Who should that be?
I also suspect that UA is carefully warning its corporate customers to avoid the brand damage DL did to itself.
All of this ensures one thing. People without status sitting in the cheap seats won't take up the limited OH space, even if you are on a tight connection. No matter what the rules and no matter how well-enforced, the average narrow-body can't acommodate the # of compliant carryons. So, somebody loses. Who should that be?
Dec 18, 2016, 10:43 am
#926
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: 1 thousand
Posts: 2,112
True, but I doubt they're making $1B from filling 1-2 empty seats occasionally. The last 3 flights I've been on to/from ORD have been oversold so it's not like planes are half full either.
The route question will be interesting. My guess is that they start these fares on routes where they've lowered rates to compete with the LCC's. I believe the priority is to increase margin on these flights. Assuming that goes well, and they meet the increased financial projections, I see no reason they wouldn't expand this to all routes. There's really no down-side to it for UA, unless customers book away to other airlines. But the limited roll out would test that.
The route question will be interesting. My guess is that they start these fares on routes where they've lowered rates to compete with the LCC's. I believe the priority is to increase margin on these flights. Assuming that goes well, and they meet the increased financial projections, I see no reason they wouldn't expand this to all routes. There's really no down-side to it for UA, unless customers book away to other airlines. But the limited roll out would test that.
In the much vaunted SFO-SEA example: I can't find any of the super cheap $120 RT's right now, but at $160 RT, DL aren't sellling their BE equivalent. If UA decide to sell BE there - especially if it covers all fare levels - they're just going to shoot themselves in the foot wrt. casual travellers (or even me, since I often book in advance - I realise I'm atypical though).
I imagine there are plenty of similar routes, i.e. any route where 2 or more non-LCC airlines compete head to head (i.e. AA, DL, AS, WN).
Dec 18, 2016, 2:11 pm
#927
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey
Programs: UA MM 1K, AA MM Gold, Marriott LT Platinum
Posts: 3,236
On our version of Concur, there's an option when viewing flight options to select "Show all details" then select "View more fares." That will show you the actual fare codes (including those out of compliance), whether bags can be checked for free, and whether the fare is refundable. In our system, we can choose a fare that's up to $100 more than the lowest offered price, which should allow you to avoid the BE fare if it's not blocked. YMMV
Dec 18, 2016, 2:32 pm
#928
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Redwood City, CA USA (SFO/SJC)
Programs: 1K 2010, 1P in 2011, Plat for 2012,13,14,15 & 2016. Gold in 17 & 18, Plat since
Posts: 8,826
You're assuming there will be a reduction. UA is already matching prices with LCCs, or nearly so, on a lot of routes -- currently, they tend to use the G fares for that.
To the contrary, I expect that UA will raise fares across the board, and then introduce the N fares at the previous price point. They can do this as far up the fare ladder as they like. People who want the benefits of the regular fare -- e.g., E+ -- will have to eat the difference.
I see this as a stealth way to charge elites for E+ (and the possibility of an upgrade, and the PQMs). Personally, my main motivation for maintaining status is E+, because I take great pains to avoid flying in tight quarters pitch-wise. Previously, I'd take UA, even if it were somewhat more expensive compared to the other legacies, since I wouldn't have to pay for the seat selection. I'll still do the same, but the comparison point will be the regular economy fares, not the basic fares. (I refuse to fly F9, NK, or G4, regardless of price, due to the comfort factor alone.
To the contrary, I expect that UA will raise fares across the board, and then introduce the N fares at the previous price point. They can do this as far up the fare ladder as they like. People who want the benefits of the regular fare -- e.g., E+ -- will have to eat the difference.
I see this as a stealth way to charge elites for E+ (and the possibility of an upgrade, and the PQMs). Personally, my main motivation for maintaining status is E+, because I take great pains to avoid flying in tight quarters pitch-wise. Previously, I'd take UA, even if it were somewhat more expensive compared to the other legacies, since I wouldn't have to pay for the seat selection. I'll still do the same, but the comparison point will be the regular economy fares, not the basic fares. (I refuse to fly F9, NK, or G4, regardless of price, due to the comfort factor alone.
Overall, fares are probably going to go up, one way or another. I think BE is one of the least-impacting for the way most of us buy tickets. BE allows an almost entirely-separate platform to co-exist. It won't bring down the cost for any of us here. I never suggested that. But using smoke & mirrors UA can do a virtual TED thing.
Dec 18, 2016, 5:08 pm
#929
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
On our version of Concur, there's an option when viewing flight options to select "Show all details" then select "View more fares." That will show you the actual fare codes (including those out of compliance), whether bags can be checked for free, and whether the fare is refundable. In our system, we can choose a fare that's up to $100 more than the lowest offered price, which should allow you to avoid the BE fare if it's not blocked. YMMV
It is simply compliance software. Nothing more and nothing less. It can be programmed to permit bookings in full F or only the cheapest Y- fare. It can be programmed to permit this for only specific individuals, e.g., those at senior executive levels and so on.
Concur can also enforce a policy or flag it. E.g., you can still book full F, but you are noted as having booked a non-compliant ticket.
People on FT say they hate Concur. What they really hate is their employer's travel policy but they don't want to complain to their employer, so they complain about a piece of software.
Dec 18, 2016, 9:23 pm
#930
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Tampa, FL
Programs: UA 1.5mm, *gold, AA - P, Marriot Titanium
Posts: 71
It is useless to complain when your company has 100K+ employees. Most times I use concur, it gives me the dreaded "One or more compliance rules have been broken, the broken rules have been logged" announcement upon completion of the booking.
I don't care, the day that they tell me I cannot book a Fairfield Inn room, versus the Days Inn they suggest, I am out. I don't care, I am not ever staying in a Days Inn.
We use National rental cars. I don't know how many times my expense report was challenged by some auditor in the travel/expense department, because I supposedly got an out of policy vehicle. Then I have to patiently explain to the auditor, who likely has never traveled, how National Emerald Aisle works. Especially when you come into some city late at night, and all they have left is either a SUV or a minivan, and I have to drive around that stupid motor yacht, then get dinged by some stupid auditor that doesn't know how Emerald Aisle works.
I don't care, the day that they tell me I cannot book a Fairfield Inn room, versus the Days Inn they suggest, I am out. I don't care, I am not ever staying in a Days Inn.
We use National rental cars. I don't know how many times my expense report was challenged by some auditor in the travel/expense department, because I supposedly got an out of policy vehicle. Then I have to patiently explain to the auditor, who likely has never traveled, how National Emerald Aisle works. Especially when you come into some city late at night, and all they have left is either a SUV or a minivan, and I have to drive around that stupid motor yacht, then get dinged by some stupid auditor that doesn't know how Emerald Aisle works.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Dec 19, 2016 at 12:14 am Reason: inapropriate language removed