Feb 9, 2019, 5:12 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread -- the active thread is United's Basic Economy - Discussion, Q&A, ...
Important Note: these fares became available 21 Feb 2017 for MSP for travel beginning 18 Apr 2017. More markets were added 19 April 2017 for travel starting 9 May 2017.
Related thread: Basic Economy Airport and Plane Experiences (First or Second Hand)
If you booked before the dates above, you did not have a BE fare. If purchased on united.com you will see a warning like:
4. MileagePlus members will earn full Premier qualifying dollars, 50% Premier qualifying miles and 0.5 Premier qualifying segments for each flight, as well as lifetime miles and toward the four-segment minimum.
Link to UA's description of how these fares will work: Basic Economy.
Here are the key facts:
related threads
New UA/*A TATL -LGT Economy fare - no free first bag, no changes/upgrades allowed
Benefit impact of restricted economy fares on UA Elites (Basic Econ, -LGT, Light Econ
Pre-announcement speculation thread (now closed) New "Budget Economy" fares
Important Note: these fares became available 21 Feb 2017 for MSP for travel beginning 18 Apr 2017. More markets were added 19 April 2017 for travel starting 9 May 2017.
Related thread: Basic Economy Airport and Plane Experiences (First or Second Hand)
If you booked before the dates above, you did not have a BE fare. If purchased on united.com you will see a warning like:
4. MileagePlus members will earn full Premier qualifying dollars, 50% Premier qualifying miles and 0.5 Premier qualifying segments for each flight, as well as lifetime miles and toward the four-segment minimum.
Link to UA's description of how these fares will work: Basic Economy.
Here are the key facts:
- No seat assignments until check-in. Seats will be assigned by the system and cannot be changed.*NEW* When purchasing a Basic Economy ticket, you will not receive a complimentary seat assignment but may be able to purchase advance seat assignments during booking and up until check-in opens. If you don’t purchase an advance seat assignment, your seat will be automatically assigned to you prior to boarding, and you won't be able to change your seat once it's been assigned.
- No guarantee of adjacent seats with companions
- No voluntary ticket changes after 24 hour purchase period
- Carry on limited to 1 personal item unless the customer is a MP Premier member, primary cardmember of a qualifying MileagePlus credit card, or Star Alliance *G
- Customers ineligible for carry-on who bring one to the gate will be charged a $25 convenience fee to gate-check in addition to standard baggage fees (source: @united twitter)
- Customers will not be eligible for Economy Plus or premium cabin upgrades. This includes all forms of upgrades (CPU,supported or purchased). Likewise for E+ access (elite or purchased).
- Customers will board in the last boarding group (currently Group 5) unless the customer is a MP Premier member, primary cardmember of a qualifying MileagePlus credit card, or Star Alliance *G
- Companions on same PNR will have same boarding group and carryon if one on the PNR has a waiver
- No combinability with regular economy fares or partner carriers. Interline travel is not permitted.
- Tickets will earn RDMs (based on fare and status), PQMs (50% of distance), PQSs (0.5), PQDs, in addition it will count for minimum 4 segment and lifetime miles (New as of Dec 2018)
- Basic Economy tickets will use booking code 'N'
- Online check-in only with paid checked bag, otherwise need to see a United representative to verify the onboard bag allowance and receive a boarding pass.
related threads
New UA/*A TATL -LGT Economy fare - no free first bag, no changes/upgrades allowed
Benefit impact of restricted economy fares on UA Elites (Basic Econ, -LGT, Light Econ
Pre-announcement speculation thread (now closed) New "Budget Economy" fares
United's Basic Economy - Discussion, Q&A, ... {Archive}
Feb 21, 2017, 2:34 pm
#1186
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: IAH, HOU
Programs: MileagePlus 1K, HHonors Diamond, Marriott Titanium/Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,073
Concur
Not that we expected for this to happen, but I can confirm that Concur is not blocking BE fares for my company...
Feb 21, 2017, 2:42 pm
#1187
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Rochester, MN
Programs: UA GS, AA PLT, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,437
I think you *potentially* underestimate the value of sitting together to families/couples, and to me that's been the biggest message [though it seems to be subtly evolving/changing from you "may not" be seated with others in your party to you "will not" be seated with others in your party].
While I place a huge value on having a seat assignment (in the darkest days post-merger I can say with confidence that seating combined with the absence of a F cabin to upgrade into is the only reason my $30k+ of domestic economy spending didn't walk over to Southwest wholesale), those times when I am traveling with my SO it seems like it would be very awkward to not be at least in the same row...let alone of we had under-aged offspring to wrangle.
While I place a huge value on having a seat assignment (in the darkest days post-merger I can say with confidence that seating combined with the absence of a F cabin to upgrade into is the only reason my $30k+ of domestic economy spending didn't walk over to Southwest wholesale), those times when I am traveling with my SO it seems like it would be very awkward to not be at least in the same row...let alone of we had under-aged offspring to wrangle.
I'm not sure if this was addressed, but while waiting in the gate area for UA1813 (IAH-LAX) last night, there was a GA in training and she asked about what the procedure for gate checking bags. The trainer was saying that "you might as well take all of Group 5's bags, because that is what's going to happen soon anyway."
Could it be that BE fares, regardless of elite status show Group 5, which would make it easier to differentiate BE passengers without saying "Basic Economy"? Then with that, if an elite member wants to board during their group number, they would just show their card.
Could it be that BE fares, regardless of elite status show Group 5, which would make it easier to differentiate BE passengers without saying "Basic Economy"? Then with that, if an elite member wants to board during their group number, they would just show their card.
Feb 21, 2017, 2:43 pm
#1188
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,406
What i am curious to see is if in the future United zeros out the non-BE fares to create a bigger spread between the regular economy offered fare and the BE fare. e.g. having way more BE fares at the bucket than regular fares at the same corresponding bucket (T-BN =18, T-EN 9 to start, where a BE fare pulls from both buckets)
If they want a bigger spread between economy and BE, they'll just increase the spread that they're using when they publish the tariffs -- e.g., $40 each way instead of $25 each way.
Incidentally, whatever was wrong with the BE fare table for MSP-LAX has been fixed; I now see BE as a discount compared to regular economy.
As an aside: the -BN fares cannot be combined with -EN fares on the same itinerary, so if you try to fly BE on the outbound and regular economy on the return, it will show double the fare difference (e.g., $50 vs. $25) and then tell you that it has changed your outbound to regular economy: "Basic Economy cannot be combined with other fares, so we've updated your outbound flight(s) to standard Economy. This does not change the overall ticket price."
Feb 21, 2017, 2:45 pm
#1189
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SoCal (ONT), PVD/BOS, JAX, RSW
Programs: AA/US PlatPro & 1.05MM, DL Plat (challenge), UA dirt
Posts: 3,189
I agree that family wanting to sit together may have some value to the average consumer. However, as you add more folks to the reservation the bigger the spread becomes. Say for a family of 4 is it worth $160 to sit together? I cannot answer that for the average consumer, but my guess is that they would rather spend that $160 elsewhere on the trip. (keep in mind they still have checked bag fees anyway adding to the cost). For me, it is totally worth it, especially as i can get E+.
Based on what UA has said about elites *G and CC holders not being subject to the bag limitation part of the BE fares I am guessing that they will still get their same boarding group that they normally get (1 or 2).
Based on what UA has said about elites *G and CC holders not being subject to the bag limitation part of the BE fares I am guessing that they will still get their same boarding group that they normally get (1 or 2).
Feb 21, 2017, 2:49 pm
#1190
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,406
You're allowed a small personal item that fits under the seat in front of you, such as a shoulder bag, purse, laptop bag or other small item, 9 inches x 10 inches x 17 inches (22 cm x 25 cm x 43 cm) or less. Mobility aids and other assistive devices are also permitted. You're not allowed a full-sized carry-on bag unless you’re a MileagePlus Premier member, primary cardmember of a qualifying MileagePlus credit card or Star Alliance™ Gold member. If you bring a full-sized carry-on bag to the gate, your bag will be subject to the applicable checked bag fee plus a $25 gate handling charge.
Feb 21, 2017, 3:23 pm
#1191
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,415
Some brief analysis of the market entry.
Basic Economy travel begins April 18, 2017.
The fare tables for MSP to domestic hubs were adjusted largely by machine (surprising to me given the speed of the rollout but I suppose they need an auto-marker anyway). They adjusted the tables as follows:
**Where a -BN fare was introduced, the -DN fare allows flying the same price without Basic Economy restrictions until April 18.
The fares were adjusted as follows
-EN fare increased: SFO, DEN, IAH, IAD, EWR
-BN fare introduced below existing fare: LAX, ORD
The route fare differential for Basic Economy will be (per-direction, non-stop travel is currently required)
$25: SFO, LAX
$20: DEN, IAH, IAD, EWR
$15: ORD
Notably the machine adjustment of the tables is very obvious as they applied the rules even when they cut right across any existing sale fares. Some example fare tables (red indicates unpriceable fares due to date constraints):
SFO/MSP L- fare families, ticketed on 20-Feb-17:
SFO/MSP L- fare families, ticketed on 21-Feb-17:
SFO/MSP M0 fare family, ticketed on 20-Feb-17:
SFO/MSP M0 fare family, ticketed on 21-Feb-17:
Selected ORD/MSP fares, ticketed on 20-Feb-17:
Selected ORD/MSP fares, ticketed on 21-Feb-17:
Basic Economy travel begins April 18, 2017.
The fare tables for MSP to domestic hubs were adjusted largely by machine (surprising to me given the speed of the rollout but I suppose they need an auto-marker anyway). They adjusted the tables as follows:
- For non-refundable (type -N) fares, the old fare family consisted of -EN (Economy) and -FN (First) fares. Market now consists of -BN (Basic Economy), -DN (discount Economy**), -EN (Economy), and -FN (First) fares.
- In most markets, the -EN fare was increased by the differential and the -BN and -DN fares were added at the old -EN fare level.
- In some markets, the -EN fare was not changed, and the -BN and -DN fares were calculated by subtracting the differential from the -EN fare.
The -FN fare was not changed in either case.-FN fares have been re-filed as the -EN fare plus the First fare differential- For refundable (type -Y) fares, the new fare family added only a -BN fare by subtracting $5 from the existing -EY fare. In my opinion, this is a marketing mistake.
**Where a -BN fare was introduced, the -DN fare allows flying the same price without Basic Economy restrictions until April 18.
The fares were adjusted as follows
-EN fare increased: SFO, DEN, IAH, IAD, EWR
-BN fare introduced below existing fare: LAX, ORD
The route fare differential for Basic Economy will be (per-direction, non-stop travel is currently required)
$25: SFO, LAX
$20: DEN, IAH, IAD, EWR
$15: ORD
Notably the machine adjustment of the tables is very obvious as they applied the rules even when they cut right across any existing sale fares. Some example fare tables (red indicates unpriceable fares due to date constraints):
SFO/MSP L- fare families, ticketed on 20-Feb-17:
Code:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cxr Basis BC Cbn Price Tp AP Min Max Days Rf T Start T End ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- UA LAA2AQEN L Y $158.00 OW 21 N 18-Jul-17 UA LAA2AQFN P J $357.00 OW 21 N 18-Jul-17 UA LAA4AQEN L Y $182.00 OW 14 N 18-Jul-17 UA LAA4SQFN P J $381.00 OW 14 N 18-Jul-17 UA LAA2AREN L Y $159.00 OW 21 N UA LAA2ARFN P J $358.00 OW 21 N
Code:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cxr Basis BC Cbn Price Tp AP Min Max Days Rf T Start T End ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- UA LAA2AQBN N Y $158.00 OW 21 N 18-Jul-17 31-Dec-20 UA LAA2AQDN L Y $158.00 OW 21 N 18-Jul-17 17-Apr-17 UA LAA2AQEN L Y $183.00 OW 21 N 18-Jul-17 UA LAA2AQFN P J $382.00 OW 21 N 18-Jul-17 UA LAA4AQBN N Y $182.00 OW 14 N 18-Jul-17 31-Dec-20 UA LAA4AQDN L Y $182.00 OW 14 N 18-Jul-17 17-Apr-17 UA LAA4AQEN L Y $207.00 OW 14 N 18-Jul-17 UA LAA4AQFN P J $406.00 OW 14 N 18-Jul-17 UA LAA2ARBN N Y $159.00 OW 21 N 18-Apr-17 31-Dec-20 UA LAA2ARDN L Y $159.00 OW 21 N 20-Feb-17 17-Apr-17 UA LAA2AREN L Y $184.00 OW 21 N UA LAA2ARFN P J $383.00 OW 21 N
Code:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cxr Basis BC Cbn Price Tp AP Min Max Days Rf T Start T End ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- UA MAA0AFEY M Y $731.00 OW Y UA MAA0AFFY A F $930.00 OW Y
Code:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cxr Basis BC Cbn Price Tp AP Min Max Days Rf T Start T End ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- UA MAA0AFBN N Y $726.00 OW N 18-Apr-17 31-Dec-20 UA MAA0AFEY M Y $731.00 OW Y UA MAA0AFFY A F $930.00 OW Y
Code:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cxr Basis BC Cbn Price Tp AP Min Max Days Rf T Start T End ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- UA GAA4AWEN G Y $56.00 OW 14 N 24-May-17 UA KAA7AWEN K Y $76.00 OW 7 N 24-May-17 UA KAA7AWFN P J $175.00 OW 7 N 24-May-17
Code:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cxr Basis BC Cbn Price Tp AP Min Max Days Rf T Start T End ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- UA GAA4AWBN N Y $41.00 OW 14 N 18-Apr-17 24-May-17 UA GAA4AWDN G Y $41.00 OW 14 N 20-Feb-17 17-Apr-17 UA GAA4AWEN G Y $56.00 OW 14 N 24-May-17 UA KAA7AWBN N Y $61.00 OW 14 N 18-Apr-17 24-May-17 UA KAA7AWDN K Y $61.00 OW 14 N 20-Feb-17 17-Apr-17 UA KAA7AWEN K Y $76.00 OW 14 N 24-May-17 UA KAA7AWFN P J $175.00 OW 7 N 24-May-17
Last edited by findark; Feb 21, 2017 at 4:53 pm
Feb 21, 2017, 3:54 pm
#1192
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1k, SPG Plat 100
Posts: 619
Feb 21, 2017, 3:56 pm
#1193
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PWM
Programs: AA Plat
Posts: 1,335
The new
video is out for BE (new guy Phil Torres, wonder what happened to Katie?).
Anyways, it makes it seem like you're not allowed to go to the ticket counter unless you're checking a bag. Kinda like banks where you can't talk to a teller. Is this a published "enhancement"???
Anyways, it makes it seem like you're not allowed to go to the ticket counter unless you're checking a bag. Kinda like banks where you can't talk to a teller. Is this a published "enhancement"???
Feb 21, 2017, 4:00 pm
#1194
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Rochester, MN
Programs: UA GS, AA PLT, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,437
That's not how inventory works. Inventory is assigned to a fare class, not to an individual fare. If they were to zero out the T bucket in order to stop selling T-EN fares, they would also stop selling T-BN fares. That's actually a designed part of the system: when the deep discount economy inventory goes to zero, the lowest available BE fare will rise in tandem with the lowest available non-BE fare.
If they want a bigger spread between economy and BE, they'll just increase the spread that they're using when they publish the tariffs -- e.g., $40 each way instead of $25 each way.
Incidentally, whatever was wrong with the BE fare table for MSP-LAX has been fixed; I now see BE as a discount compared to regular economy.
As an aside: the -BN fares cannot be combined with -EN fares on the same itinerary, so if you try to fly BE on the outbound and regular economy on the return, it will show double the fare difference (e.g., $50 vs. $25) and then tell you that it has changed your outbound to regular economy: "Basic Economy cannot be combined with other fares, so we've updated your outbound flight(s) to standard Economy. This does not change the overall ticket price."
If they want a bigger spread between economy and BE, they'll just increase the spread that they're using when they publish the tariffs -- e.g., $40 each way instead of $25 each way.
Incidentally, whatever was wrong with the BE fare table for MSP-LAX has been fixed; I now see BE as a discount compared to regular economy.
As an aside: the -BN fares cannot be combined with -EN fares on the same itinerary, so if you try to fly BE on the outbound and regular economy on the return, it will show double the fare difference (e.g., $50 vs. $25) and then tell you that it has changed your outbound to regular economy: "Basic Economy cannot be combined with other fares, so we've updated your outbound flight(s) to standard Economy. This does not change the overall ticket price."
Feb 21, 2017, 4:08 pm
#1195
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,455
Feb 21, 2017, 4:10 pm
#1196
Join Date: May 2016
Location: SLC
Programs: United Gold, Hilton Silver, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 768
I just checked Concur, as I was curious because MSP is my most frequent destination. It appears to be blocking out these fares, so that's good news for me.
Feb 21, 2017, 4:31 pm
#1197
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,406
Maybe you are misunderstanding what I was saying. We know that the BE fares sell from the N bucket not from the other buckets. However, what N actually maps is what may change. That is they are willing to sell 18 seats at TAA2AKBN but only 9 seats at TAA2AKEN. If the sell one seat at the T-BN fare, the system will reduce both the N bucket and the T bucket by one. So what happens is that as people buy the cheap N fares that map to the T bucket, T sells out and you move up to the next bucket for regular economy pricing, while N is still available at the T-BN fare. This is no different than the old YUP/QUP fares that stared with Y or Q but pulled from the A bucket, or how a pull from the PN bucket drops the R and RN buckets by 1 as well.
Note that I'm speaking specifically of 'inventory' as it's defined in this context, meaning the inventory that's published to the GDSes (which, in any case, never exceeds 9 in a given fare class). There's obviously a different concept of inventory, meaning the total number of seats that Revenue Management (RM) is willing to sell on the airplane (e.g., total seating capacity + 10, or whatever it may be on a given route / aircraft type).
First of all, many purchases don't reduce inventory at all. If RM is content to sell a lot of seats at the current inventory levels, it's common for the inventory to be unchanged after a purchase is completed. (e.g., Y9 ... K9 G0 N9 before the purchase, and Y9 ... K9 G0 N9 after the purchase).
Second, in virtually every case since the original deep discount N fares disappeared from the fare tables (in early 2016, IIRC), N has tracked with Y. So, it's common to see things like Y9 B8 ... K1 G0 N9. That indicates UA's willingness to sell a BE fare at any price point.
To your specific example -- it's not possible for them to sell tickets at the T-BN fare if there is no T inventory, because the T-BN fare requires availability in both the T and N buckets at the time of ticketing. The fact that the passenger will actually be ticketed into N is immaterial. So, for instance, let's say that the cheapest available inventory is in the W bucket. At that point, the customer will have the option to purchase a W-EN fare, booking into W, for standard economy, or a W-BN fare, booking into N, for basic economy.
UA does this specifically because they want to keep a consistent spread between the lowest available standard economy fare and the lowest available BE fare. If all they wanted to do was sell a few seats at the low end of the market, they wouldn't need to publish differential fares the way that they have. They could just have published N fares and made them super-restrictive, and then allowed RM to control inventory on them however they desired.
If UA later decides that they want to increase the spread between BE and standard economy on higher fare class tickets, they certainly have the tools to do so at their disposal -- but they cannot do it the way that you're suggesting. Instead, they'd just publish new tariffs that increased the difference between the BE and standard economy fares. (For example, there's no reason that they couldn't publish a W-BE fare that was identical to the T-BE fare).
Finally -- the overwhelming consensus is that, while UA is willing to sell these fares to price-sensitive consumers, it'd probably rather not. (findark and sbm12 both noted that in many of these markets, standard economy fares went up overnight). UA is pitching this to investors as a big revenue gainer. Since they were already matching ULCC fares in many markets, and their load factors are near historic highs, the only way that introducing BE can increase revenue is if people are successfully dissuaded from purchasing it -- or if they can collect additional ancillary fees. It's no coincidence that the differentials are around the cost of a checked bag; UA is hoping to get the revenue either up front, by convincing people to purchase standard economy, or at the time of flight, when people check an extra bag. If they increase the spread too much, making BE relatively attractive, they'll end up costing themselves revenue as passengers switch to it.
Feb 21, 2017, 4:33 pm
#1198
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist, Virtuoso Travel Agent, Commercial Pilot
Posts: 2,117
Maybe you are misunderstanding what I was saying. We know that the BE fares sell from the N bucket not from the other buckets. However, what N actually maps is what may change. That is they are willing to sell 18 seats at TAA2AKBN but only 9 seats at TAA2AKEN. If the sell one seat at the T-BN fare, the system will reduce both the N bucket and the T bucket by one. So what happens is that as people buy the cheap N fares that map to the T bucket, T sells out and you move up to the next bucket for regular economy pricing, while N is still available at the T-BN fare. This is no different than the old YUP/QUP fares that stared with Y or Q but pulled from the A bucket, or how a pull from the PN bucket drops the R and RN buckets by 1 as well.
Code:
CXR FARE CLASS MARKET TICKET DATE TRAVEL DATE
UA TAA0AKBN MSPLAX 21FEB17 11OCT17
UA PRIME BOOKING CODE N
---------------------------------------------------------------
UA EXCEPTIONS
REQUIRED IF T AVAIL N
NO BOOKING CODE APPLIES - CXR DOES NOT PARTICIPATE
Feb 21, 2017, 4:37 pm
#1199
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,455
If all they wanted to do was sell a few seats at the low end of the market, they wouldn't need to publish differential fares the way that they have. They could just have published N fares and made them super-restrictive, and then allowed RM to control inventory on them however they desired.
Offering N as a booking class at every fare basis level makes this new structure considerably more offensive than what I had expected.
I wish .com offered a default search criterion just to exclude these fares from search results, as I am 100% not interested in ever buying one.
Feb 21, 2017, 4:55 pm
#1200
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CLE, DCA, and 30k feet
Programs: Honors LT Diamond; United 1K; Hertz PC
Posts: 4,164
I've also seen gate agents explicitly reject MP cards and CC during boarding as in "If your boarding pass doesn't say Group X, nothing else matters"/"If you have the credit card, your boarding pass will indicate the correct group." so I'm not sure why they would relax that guidance.
I can't say I've seen a GA accept a MP card in lieu of BP status since UA/CO merged and I was introduced to the wonderful world of boarding groups.