nmenaker

well, they do and they don't. I have seen on route we frequent that the UA fare is about 25-50$ more per leg than say a SW/JB/VA flight, BUT when those carriers do fare sales in certain markets I have seen SOME flights on the united on the same routes - so directly competitive routes come DOWN to match the SW/JB/VA pricing. It only happens for short periods of time - similar to those other carriers sales or reduce inventory windows but it does happen. And again, ONLY for certain flights on UA not ALL flights of the same legs, and not the best times, but not CONNECTIONS, etc.

I fully expect there to be BE fares that WILL come down to match those carriers sales and opportunistic selling. But, in the same breath Ill say that our standard lowest priced regular economy fare TODAY is going to be the regular BE fare of TOMORROW. It's not going to be regularly priced lower than one would expect today, generally or on average.

So, what one is used to today, is going to cost MORE tomorrow (well, starting in Q2 2017 baring any domestic recession)

For me (us) I don't expect to be able to ever book a BE fare (being 6'5" means I need to book a seat and preferably ER/Aisle in E+). I don't care about CPU anymore since it NEVER happens for a 1P AT ALL, but I do care about being able to FIT in the seat and not run the risk of DVT or some other condition. And I usually bring a laptop bag and roller board and don't want to start checking bags and running that mess of pain.

So, I'm sure its going to start costing me at LEAST 10-15% more to book tickets on UA come 2017.

B_Rosenthal

at least some economy fares will continue to earn miles(including EQM)..

I remember many years ago there were a few airlines that only give miles for F, C and full Y fares. (can't remember which one it was... could it have been SQ or CX?)

denver19

It happens to me constantly. I get to 1K each year going back and forth to HNL and OGG. Flights to Hawaii, are populated by many couples. Or couples with kids. As a single guy, I am always the person located next to one of the newlyweds in F, so off to 1F I go!! It gets old. It can also be uncomfortable on the red eye home, because if I don't switch it is 6 hours next to the unhappy camper.

Here is something I don't get: You have an economy seat with a seat assignment. Somebody from BE asks you to switch so they can be next to their 3 year old. You agree to switch. Where do you go? They don't have a seat assignment. Just some random empty seat? I think they need to give these BE people seat assignments.

c2cflyer

I guess the question is, are they simply introducing a brand new fare class at the bottom rung - and not changing anything else - or are they going to slowly 're-classify' the majority of non-refundable economy fares as 'basic' and basically force loyal flyers off their product since they don't offer miles for them anymore

Mike Jacoubowsky

Is this any different from swapping a seat in E+ for one in E- to help someone out? I doubt this happens very much, and I don't see that changing.

So here's my version of the most-unfortunate scenario. Suppose you have a trip coming up, TCON maybe, 4 months out. UA displays some really favorable BE fares, maybe less than half anything else. So you bite and buy the BE fare. Later, fares come way down for regular buckets... and you have no way of buying your way out of h***. That would suck.

Again though, I don't see this as having much effect on elites, because very, very few of "us" would ever consider heading to the land of E-. E+ is indeed a very nice perk. If UA pushed things too far (raised "regular" fares too much), many would simply give up on the elite concept entirely. UA likely will be careful not to push it that far. They can't make money filling a plane with BE fares.

milypan

Yes, of course we can never observe the counterfactual. Only United, and those with access to its pricing model, will ever know exactly how much the BE entry changes fares.

However, given that UAL jumped 6% on the BE announcement, I think the message to investors was pretty clear. They believe PRASM is definitely going up, not down.

notquiteaff

By the time they are asking you to switch (on board) they have a seat assignment.

emcampbe

Well, you're scenario makes no sense for at least 2 reasons. First, if someone asks you to swap (which IME, is fairly rare, but it happens even today to people who already have seat assignments), it's going to be on the aircraft, and yes, at that point, they will have a seat. No seat assignments means passengers don't get them in advance - they'll get tham at check in in most cases (though they won't be able to select it at all, it will just be given to them). So yes, they will have some sort of seat by then.

Second, in the not too distant future, DOT is requiring airlines to seat children under a certain age with at least one parent or guardian. So either this will happen anyway, except you'll be asked by the GA, or more likely, UA and other carriers will have some algorithim to hold seats aside for this purpose.

Let's not forget that UA isn't the first, by far, to offer fares that don't give seat assignments until check in. In fact, they are one of the last - European carriers (low cost and legacy) have been doing it for many years, AC for close to 15 - 20 on their Tango fares, WN hasn't ever had seat assignments, and DL with their E fares for the last year or two. Let's not make up stuff - yes, there are potential issues, but there are workarounds.

B_Rosenthal

Alert the flight attendants? Just like when E- passengers try to poach E+ seats. If they are too cheap to pay for seat assignments so the three of them can sit together, too bad... The flight attendant should demand that they pay for the switched seats, just like how they collect the upgrade fee from E- to E+ onboard.

vanillabean

I would imagine that United credit card holders are likely to keep most of their status including their boarding group, bring a carry-on bag for free and are guaranteed to sit together with their party. What do you think?

wolf72

Do airlines really, really need this basic economy?

Why is it, it seems to me, american airliners keep coming out with products that actually anger/enrage passengers than they do excite passengers?

You don't see this happen with other airlines around the world unless it's easy jet.

notquiteaff

No frills airlines are popular and financially successful in many parts of the world. I am sure you can think of some in your neck of the woods.

Flyertalkers aren't necessarily representative of their customer base, so the emotional reaction here isn't ncecessarily what you would get from a Spirit or Frontier flyer.

mherdeg

(1) Is United going to use "N" fare class for basic economy?

(2) Is United going to rebook higher-fare-paying pax into "N" during irrops or other invol change situations?


I just volunteered to be denied boarding and was offered a flight which, when I looked at the protection record on my segment, was booked into "N". The relevant flight has inventory F0 Y1 B1 M1 E0 … N1 so I think the agent rebooked me from my booked class (W) into the lowest available class the system could sell (N).

Seems kind of wonky / insidious to be offered a dramatically lower fare class during an oversale, especially if it starts carrying special meaning!

WineCountryUA

because a lot of infrequent passengers automatically pick the lowest fare option when booking

LH group LIGHT fares?

Other have reported this also, at the present N is an unsold fare class BUT there are still tickets that were sold in N fare in the past year .. So for now this is just a system anomaly . Suspect once N is used for the Basic Economy, this behavior will stop.

IAH-OIL-TRASH

No.