Fried Chicken

Why on God's Green Earth would you wish UA overbooked their flights?!

That's on the employee, not on me. Their discretion.

That said, if an airline is run so ruthlessly and callously that they'll fire their employees over something as small and simple as this, it'd be a pretty terrible airline indeed.

The glory days of flying are indeed gone.

jsloan

Because UA used to routinely pay for my future flights when I’d give up my seat on an overbooked flight. Plus, overbooking helps to keep fares low. As it stands, UA does not tend to offer discount fares in advance, because they risk running out of inventory and losing last-minute, high-yield travel.

All of the major US airlines have learned to monetize their first class cabins. That includes giving complimentary upgrades to frequent fliers on some routes, or upgrade certificates that can be used on longer routes. They also sell upgrades to anybody who wants to buy them.

Given that context, what you’re describing is no different than walking into a computer store, picking out a computer, and offering the cashier $100 cash to let you walk out without paying the store for it.

WineCountryUA

Request a employee to violate company and taking a bribe, and therefore risking being fired ?
You may be surprised how they respond.
Not the glory days of flying I remember.

Fried Chicken

When American Airlines implemented their pay-for-onboard-food system, I was absolutely famished. The flight attendant found some food and gave it to me anyway.
She committed gross theft and a blatant violation of company policy. Clearly she should have been fired.

Similarly, I sometimes bring chocolates for the crew and they treat me to all sorts of goodies.
Clearly they should all be fired for subverting the corporate overlords out of their sweet sweet profits.


Actually I'm not sure it's theft on their part. If they have discretion, I'd simply be asking them to slip discretion my way. Not to say it isn't outright bribery, but that's... kind of something the airlines have implemented... they just don't call it that... they call it policy.

I prefer flying airlines that give more discretion to their employees, rather than the overly bureaucratic micromanaged airlines.

WineCountryUA

GA/FAs do not have discretion on upgrades, UA has a very complete, detailed process for providing upgrades. It is made very clearl to the employees should not violate these processes. Food and drinks, the FAs may have a bit more discretion, especially perishable items.
I prefer to fly carriers where bribes to get good service are not needed. I also prefer carriers that follow the upgrade process and recognize my status.

IAH-OIL-TRASH

Airlines give their employees discretion in many areas. You’re naive if you think upgrades are an area at any airline where employees have a lot of discretion. They don’t because the frequent flyers depend on a certain honesty about the upgrade priority and process. You’ll be taking the bus if you only want to fly U.S airlines that take bribes for upgrades.

Fried Chicken

I've found the best service and experience I've had while flying are on airlines that afford their employees the most responsibility and discretion. Maybe not the level of getting a seat upgrade from slipping them cash lol, although I've had good luck asking nicely

uanj

I can't tell you if you are serious with all this or not, but in case you are, please consider that some of the offers for upgrades you are seeing on ebay are posted by the United fraud department. That will be the end of your European trip. Your mileage account will be canceled, unused miles and tickets forfeited.

WineCountryUA

Speculation or evidence?

I could see UA Fraud purchasing existing eBay offers to track down the individual making the offer. But placing fake offers, without evidence of such, I find it hard to believe. Might be able to make an entrapment case.

SPN Lifer

Entrapment is prohibited as a matter of U.S. constitutional law in criminal prosecutions by the government.

There is nothing in the MileagePlus™ Terms and Conditions, nor in state or federal civil law, that precludes United Airlines (UA) from trying to root out violations of its terms of service in this fashion.

The punishment is merely loss of one's MileagePlus™ account, or possibly the privilege of flying UA, not incarceration.

WineCountryUA

Yes, I understand the difference between criminal entrapment and a company enticing it customers to break the T&Cs.

But for the latter, the bad optics. the bad PR for such enticement / entrapment could go very badly in the viral public internet space -- and yes, the word entrapment is what would be used. Not every legal term is restricted to it legal meaning in common parlance. The public understands that basic concept of entrapment and would be very unforgetting of a company doing that to its customers.


The first definition in the Oxford dictionary for entrapment
"the state of being caught in or as in a trap."
The second definition is the more legal definition
"the action of tricking someone into committing a crime in order to secure their prosecution.

jsloan

I doubt “we set up a honeypot to catch customers trying to cheat us” is going to be anywhere near the top of the list of UA’s PR concerns.

I’m not saying that i know for sure that UA is posing as sellers — but even if they’re only posing as buyers, that doesn’t mean it’s somehow safe to be a buyer. Once UA determines that an account has been selling upgrades, they’re naturally going to look for all other reservations that person has upgraded.

Anyway, they probably don’t even need to do that much work to spot brokers — you’re looking for accounts that sponsor a wide variety of flights where the passengers don’t appear to have a strong connection to the flyer.

DELee

Then as a frequent flyer on such airlines, you should frequent them as a customer. Unclear why it is necessary to bring forward all kinds of silly ideas and clearly against what UA and MP have stated in their rules.

David

Kacee

I'm pretty sure this is exactly how they do it.

They may also flag an upgraded itinerary as suspicious based on the transaction itself, but in terms of active fraud detection schemes, posing as a buyer and then going back up the tree to find other purchased upgrades will be the most effective method.

Lori_Q

Wouldn't that seller have a very bad eBay satisfaction rating?

Although United selling upgrades to catch buyers is possible, spending fraud-management resources on trapping buyers doesn't seem efficient. I can see a fraud department responding to sellers who are actively breaking the rules about selling upgrade instruments from their Mileage Plus accounts. Buyers may not know United's rules, or may not have M+ accounts (and haven't agreed to the M+ terms & conditions).