Jan 28, 2022, 4:52 pm
UA PlusPoints / Upgrades for sale on ebay ...(Warning these are not sanctioned by UA)
Jul 3, 2023, 12:13 am
#76
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,421
The eBay listings are so obviously black-market that it’s difficult for me to imagine anyone buying one and thinking it was within the rules of any of the airline programs.
Jul 3, 2023, 12:21 am
#77
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: TOA
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott LTPP/Platinum Premier, Hyatt Lame-ist, UA !K
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Wouldn't that seller have a very bad eBay satisfaction rating?
Although United selling upgrades to catch buyers is possible, spending fraud-management resources on trapping buyers doesn't seem efficient. I can see a fraud department responding to sellers who are actively breaking the rules about selling upgrade instruments from their Mileage Plus accounts. Buyers may not know United's rules, or may not have M+ accounts (and haven't agreed to the M+ terms & conditions).
Although United selling upgrades to catch buyers is possible, spending fraud-management resources on trapping buyers doesn't seem efficient. I can see a fraud department responding to sellers who are actively breaking the rules about selling upgrade instruments from their Mileage Plus accounts. Buyers may not know United's rules, or may not have M+ accounts (and haven't agreed to the M+ terms & conditions).
David
Jul 3, 2023, 1:05 am
#78
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 5,001
My friend tried everything he could to get his account reinstated, even hiring a lawyer, and nothing worked. He was a Lifetime GS at the time with around 1.5 million miles in his account.
Jul 3, 2023, 5:13 am
#79
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,281
Jul 3, 2023, 6:16 am
#80
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PHL
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, Raddison Platinum, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 5,271
I had a friend get caught up in an UG selling situation. In his case, eBay not only surrendered his personal info to UA (I assume via subpoena), but eBay also never released the funds to him and evidently refunded the money back to UA. So, there is no net cost to UA corporate security in conducting straw purchases of UG instruments on eBay.
My friend tried everything he could to get his account reinstated, even hiring a lawyer, and nothing worked. He was a Lifetime GS at the time with around 1.5 million miles in his account.
My friend tried everything he could to get his account reinstated, even hiring a lawyer, and nothing worked. He was a Lifetime GS at the time with around 1.5 million miles in his account.
I remember my dad use to go to a UA office to buy a ticket with his miles for someone else and meet them in person to sell them a physical ticket. I bet he'd be selling on ebay even today if he knew how to put up a listing. I wonder if one polled all the UA MP members, what percentage would think that it is ok to sell their instruments. Compared to a policy like, how many bags are you allowed to carry on, which has a far lower penalty for non-compliance.
Last edited by eng3; Jul 3, 2023 at 6:23 am
Jul 3, 2023, 11:06 am
#81
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 5,001
Was your friend aware of the rules? It's no excuse but I'm surprised at the number of GSes that I meet who claim to have no idea that they are not allowed to sell "their" PPs. I guess it's in the fine print. Sometimes they don't believe me when I inform them or say UA doesn't care. Sometimes they aren't even aware of what PP are or for to use them.
Jul 3, 2023, 3:13 pm
#82
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
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Considering how actively airlines monetize virtually every single aspect of flying these days, I guess there's some logic to viewing upgrades as something the passenger should be able to monetize. But taking the analysis further, the airlines (including UA) also tilt their rules in the carrier's favor to the fullest extent permitted by law, so any complete analysis should lead to the conclusion that this may not be allowed (and maybe I should check the rules).
Jul 3, 2023, 4:31 pm
#83
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: San Francisco
Programs: UA MM Plat, UA 1MM, Hilton Lifetime Gold, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold, CLEAR, AS MVP Gold
Posts: 3,621
I had a friend get caught up in an UG selling situation. In his case, eBay not only surrendered his personal info to UA (I assume via subpoena), but eBay also never released the funds to him and evidently refunded the money back to UA. So, there is no net cost to UA corporate security in conducting straw purchases of UG instruments on eBay.
My friend tried everything he could to get his account reinstated, even hiring a lawyer, and nothing worked. He was a Lifetime GS at the time with around 1.5 million miles in his account.
My friend tried everything he could to get his account reinstated, even hiring a lawyer, and nothing worked. He was a Lifetime GS at the time with around 1.5 million miles in his account.
Jul 3, 2023, 8:04 pm
#84
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.997MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,861
When you go to the extent of selling "travel advice" and by the way, throw in PlusPoints upgrades as a free bonus, one needs to be pretty disconnected not to think this isn't on the up and up.
Jul 4, 2023, 4:07 pm
#85
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PHL
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, Raddison Platinum, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 5,271
Considering how actively airlines monetize virtually every single aspect of flying these days, I guess there's some logic to viewing upgrades as something the passenger should be able to monetize. But taking the analysis further, the airlines (including UA) also tilt their rules in the carrier's favor to the fullest extent permitted by law, so any complete analysis should lead to the conclusion that this may not be allowed (and maybe I should check the rules).
Jul 4, 2023, 4:52 pm
#86
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SAN
Programs: 1K (since 2008), *G (since 1990), 1MM
Posts: 3,220
Yes, I agree, selling "travel advice" just sounds fishy to start with. But living in the "FT Bubble" it is easy to forget that most people spend very little brain power analyzing airline rules, even some GSes. When airlines say you are "Earning" something, I think it is fairly natural to conclude that you "own" what you "earned" and therefore can sell it. Reading a blog telling you how to circumvent the rules because the blog claims that no one cares is just asking for trouble. I think the highest level elite I've ever met that was unaware of the rules was when I sat next to a GS hitting 3MM on that flight. He didn't seem to believe me when I told him he can't sell his GPUs.
Jul 4, 2023, 5:14 pm
#87
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS/EAP
Programs: UA 1K, MR LTT, HH Dia, Amex Plat
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Yes, I agree, selling "travel advice" just sounds fishy to start with. But living in the "FT Bubble" it is easy to forget that most people spend very little brain power analyzing airline rules, even some GSes. When airlines say you are "Earning" something, I think it is fairly natural to conclude that you "own" what you "earned" and therefore can sell it. Reading a blog telling you how to circumvent the rules because the blog claims that no one cares is just asking for trouble. I think the highest level elite I've ever met that was unaware of the rules was when I sat next to a GS hitting 3MM on that flight. He didn't seem to believe me when I told him he can't sell his GPUs.
Jul 5, 2023, 1:02 pm
#88
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PHL
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, Raddison Platinum, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 5,271
That doesn't mean that it is widely known
When GPUs were a thing I had no idea I had them for a number of years until a phone agent mentioned to me I had a number expiring soon. She had to explain to me what they were and how to use them. After that i became informed and used them and planned how to maximize them and use them. But until specifically mentioned to me no idea and it had been a few years of having them. I used my miles for upgrades and was calling in about that and she proactively mentioned it to me. I obviously was not on FT either!
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jul 5, 2023 at 5:38 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member