Oct 29, 2018, 2:14 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
UA has started installing Premium Plus / Premium Economy seats in 772s and 773s. Other long haul aircraft will also be receiving these new seats.
For 77x it is a 2-4-2 (vs economy 3-4-3) with 3 rows - 24 seats
For 76x it is believe it will be 2-2-2 (vs 2-3-2) with 3 rows ( and maybe a partial row) - 22 seats
For 78x it is believed it will be 2-3-2 (vs 3-3-3) with 3 rows - 21 seats
UA has not yet started selling this new cabin but has restructured its fare class -- which appears to be in preparation of selling the new cabin (and removed 3-class F)
In the meantime, the Premium Plus cabin is being treated as an extension of E+ and those with E+ access can select the new seats.
In many cases UA is initially using an interim seat maps, such as https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1926142-interim-772-seat-map-polaris-potentially-premium-economy-2018-a.html
Things start to firm up about 2 days prior but last minute changes can happen
For 77x it is a 2-4-2 (vs economy 3-4-3) with 3 rows - 24 seats
For 76x it is believe it will be 2-2-2 (vs 2-3-2) with 3 rows ( and maybe a partial row) - 22 seats
For 78x it is believed it will be 2-3-2 (vs 3-3-3) with 3 rows - 21 seats
UA has not yet started selling this new cabin but has restructured its fare class -- which appears to be in preparation of selling the new cabin (and removed 3-class F)
In the meantime, the Premium Plus cabin is being treated as an extension of E+ and those with E+ access can select the new seats.
In many cases UA is initially using an interim seat maps, such as https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1926142-interim-772-seat-map-polaris-potentially-premium-economy-2018-a.html
Things start to firm up about 2 days prior but last minute changes can happen
Real Premium Economy is Coming [Update: UA studying "Real" Prem Y in domestic market]
Oct 8, 2018, 2:00 pm
#796
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There are two issues with this. (1) 99% of the public will have no idea what "premium plus" is. Confronted with buying that flight from their home in Florida to see the grandkids and offered "First Class" on DL/AA or "PremiumPlus" on United for the same price, the known name will often win out; (2) then UA would need to map PE flights to domestic F, which I don't think is what they are going to do, my guess is that they copy DL and map PE international flights to domestic E+ (DL does it to C+). If they are called the same name, UA will need to connect to domestic F, which will raise the price point, and make it look noncompetitive with OALs that don't do this.
Domestic F has never sold for lower as a byproduct of F monetization, and if UA thinks it can price domestic PP for the same cost as today's F and move F pricing way up when A) neither AA nor DL will do the same, and B) the United domestic F product is already pretty much nothing more than premium economy especially on the narrow body aircraft, then Kirby needs to put down what ever he is smoking and step away from the ashtray.
Oct 8, 2018, 2:06 pm
#797
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There are two issues with this. (1) 99% of the public will have no idea what "premium plus" is. Confronted with buying that flight from their home in Florida to see the grandkids and offered "First Class" on DL/AA or "PremiumPlus" on United for the same price, the known name will often win out;
(2) then UA would need to map PE flights to domestic F, which I don't think is what they are going to do, my guess is that they copy DL and map PE international flights to domestic E+ (DL does it to C+). If they are called the same name, UA will need to connect to domestic F, which will raise the price point, and make it look noncompetitive with OALs that don't do this.
My guess is UA is aiming to position PPlus in the lower ½ of the delta between Y and J (e.g. if Y is $700 and J is $4.5k, PPlus would be ~1.8-2.2k...or about 70/80% of what a current P fare is). Since P fares map to F domestically the logic is there. But as you correctly note, UA would be hard pressed NOT to map the domestic sectors of international PPlus tickets to the PPlus-nee-Domestic First cabin
Oct 8, 2018, 3:58 pm
#798
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My guess is UA is aiming to position PPlus in the lower ½ of the delta between Y and J (e.g. if Y is $700 and J is $4.5k, PPlus would be ~1.8-2.2k...or about 70/80% of what a current P fare is). Since P fares map to F domestically the logic is there. But as you correctly note, UA would be hard pressed NOT to map the domestic sectors of international PPlus tickets to the PPlus-nee-Domestic First cabin
Oct 8, 2018, 6:07 pm
#799
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I wonder how the fares will map on JV feeder routes. When I fly LH PE across an ocean and then take an EU flight, the EU flight always maps to a Y fare. If I now fly UA PE and connect to a LH EU flight, will it still map to Y?
Oct 8, 2018, 8:00 pm
#800
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I don't see why not. The only real benefits of the Y code are 150% PQM and last-seat availability.
Oct 9, 2018, 10:47 am
#801
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I don't really think there's all that much guesswork. Pretty much any route UA will be flying their PE product is already served by another carrier with PE since they are so late to the market. I would be very surprised if UA did not offer a price point that is competitive with the existing market. PE fares on JV partners don't currently map to domestic F; so I would actually be quite surprised if they did on UA.
But there really needs to be much better disclosure on the third party sites. It is basically fraud for sites to e.g. be listing a trip SFO-DTW-AMS on DL as being "Premium Economy" on both legs, it is NOT. And given that prices DL is listing at times (as if it IS PE) there ought to be some very mad people when they see a bait and switch.
Hopefully UA does a better job of insuring that people know what they are buying or the product will get a bad name. The European Airlines do a much better job of labeling these flights as "Mixed"
Oct 9, 2018, 10:55 am
#802
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Oct 9, 2018, 2:53 pm
#803
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Any reports of experiences on Premium Plus with United? I may be in the wrong thread. I have a flight in November waiting on the upgrade:SFO-LHR but just as happy to experience the new hard product.
Oct 9, 2018, 4:03 pm
#804
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The seats are out there, on a few UA 772s (one? two? at this point) and on a LOT of AA planes, and somewhat less DL planes. What "soft product" comes with PE on UA is unknown, since UA has not launched any yet. At this point it is just a cool upgraded seat from someone who snags the seats on the few planes that have them.
Oct 9, 2018, 5:01 pm
#805
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8 are in the wild (6 77E, 2 77W). All 77Es coming out of Polaris mod in XMN will have P+ and 77W are now going in for P+ mods at SFO in conjunction with a regular maintenance check. Somewhat interesting as Delta had about a 14 month head start on United for its PE product, yet only has it on 12 airplanes. Granted, Delta is actually selling the product, since the A350s are currently dedicated to certain markets, but no doubt that United is bringing the product to market comparatively quickly.
As far as service, P+ provisioned exactly the same as E+, with the exception of some reports of Polaris-style headphones.
As far as service, P+ provisioned exactly the same as E+, with the exception of some reports of Polaris-style headphones.
Last edited by EWR764; Oct 9, 2018 at 5:06 pm
Oct 9, 2018, 8:26 pm
#806
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8 are in the wild (6 77E, 2 77W). All 77Es coming out of Polaris mod in XMN will have P+ and 77W are now going in for P+ mods at SFO in conjunction with a regular maintenance check. Somewhat interesting as Delta had about a 14 month head start on United for its PE product, yet only has it on 12 airplanes. Granted, Delta is actually selling the product, since the A350s are currently dedicated to certain markets, but no doubt that United is bringing the product to market comparatively quickly.
As far as service, P+ provisioned exactly the same as E+, with the exception of some reports of Polaris-style headphones.
As far as service, P+ provisioned exactly the same as E+, with the exception of some reports of Polaris-style headphones.
Certainly any savvy traveler would know to book away to a foreign airline that offers a proper Premium Economy product like CX, SQ, LH, heck even DL and AA with upgraded catering and services, etc. So Kirby's value proposition for the United product is "fly us instead of those better airlines and get the PQD you so desperately need to maintain your status, suckers!"
Yes, just as I thought 😡
Oct 9, 2018, 8:54 pm
#807
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I believe in the announcement UA stated
Later this year, we’ll begin to introduce United’s Premium Plus. Available on select international flights, United® Premium Plus will give you more space, comfort and amenities. The seats will be more spacious and you’ll enjoy upgraded dining on china dinnerware, free alcoholic beverages, a Saks Fifth Avenue blanket and pillow, an amenity kit and more.
Oct 9, 2018, 11:15 pm
#808
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So inflight meals and amenities are no better than standard coach? Then what is the value proposition of United's Premium Economy - a Big Seat (a la Spirit?)
Certainly any savvy traveler would know to book away to a foreign airline that offers a proper Premium Economy product like CX, SQ, LH, heck even DL and AA with upgraded catering and services, etc. So Kirby's value proposition for the United product is "fly us instead of those better airlines and get the PQD you so desperately need to maintain your status, suckers!"
Yes, just as I thought 😡
Certainly any savvy traveler would know to book away to a foreign airline that offers a proper Premium Economy product like CX, SQ, LH, heck even DL and AA with upgraded catering and services, etc. So Kirby's value proposition for the United product is "fly us instead of those better airlines and get the PQD you so desperately need to maintain your status, suckers!"
Yes, just as I thought 😡
Once the product is selling, the amenities will change.
Oct 10, 2018, 12:16 am
#809
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