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I'd argue that the opposite is also true. People are willing to believe no matter how little or low quality data is available. This includes news media who only write what people want to hear and only focus on creating headlines to catch people's eyes.Originally Posted by BearX220
... One of our little societal problems nowadays is that when people don't like what they see in the public sphere, they simply state, "I don't believe it," no matter the quality of supporting data.
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I think most people don't believe or know how to package something properly for shipment or checked baggage. I have seen people buy additional seats for their cellos so that is ofcourse another option. That is another factor, if this person cheaped out and bought a BE seat, she probably did not want to spend the extra money for another seat, or checked bag fee, or proper packaging.Originally Posted by kb9522
Out of curiosity, why don't musicians ship their instruments in, for example, well padded pelican cases? I, fairly regularly, have to travel with delicate equipment far more valuable than most instruments (which I'm guessing are less than a few million USD)... These items are always shipped in this manner to my destination. Never had a single issue.
I too have transported delicate million dollar equipment. It's not uncommon for a company to spent a million dollar on something, then cheap out on securing it.
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Then add in the confusion around United's musical instrument policy and you have recipe for confusion.
http://www.news1130.com/2017/06/06/v...th-instrument/
Correia had a discount fare that, according to rules posted on United’s website, doesn’t let passengers stow luggage in the overhead bin, although an exception is allowed for “small” musical instruments. It was not clear Tuesday why Correia was told to check the violin — made in Italy and believed to date to the late 1700s, her attorney said — instead of being allowed to carry it on board.
I loved this part:Originally Posted by gglave
This was my first assumption. BE ticket = No overhead bin.Then add in the confusion around United's musical instrument policy and you have recipe for confusion.
http://www.news1130.com/2017/06/06/v...th-instrument/
Correia had a discount fare that, according to rules posted on United’s website, doesn’t let passengers stow luggage in the overhead bin, although an exception is allowed for “small” musical instruments. It was not clear Tuesday why Correia was told to check the violin — made in Italy and believed to date to the late 1700s, her attorney said — instead of being allowed to carry it on board.
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Correia, ... will have her hands examined next week by a Houston surgeon, attorney Philip MacNaughton told The Associated Press.While the Venezuelan-born Correia’s hands show no immediate bruising or redness, “we’re all holding our breath,” MacNaughton said. “We think the odds of injury are low, but the stakes are career-killing.”
“You don’t grab a surgeon’s hands, a pitcher’s hands or a professional violinist’s hands,” he added, calling Sunday’s dispute “a physical attack” on Correia.
If her hands are so delicate and in such possible peril why wait a week for an exam? I guess it isn't cCorreia, ... will have her hands examined next week by a Houston surgeon, attorney Philip MacNaughton told The Associated Press.While the Venezuelan-born Correia’s hands show no immediate bruising or redness, “we’re all holding our breath,” MacNaughton said. “We think the odds of injury are low, but the stakes are career-killing.”
“You don’t grab a surgeon’s hands, a pitcher’s hands or a professional violinist’s hands,” he added, calling Sunday’s dispute “a physical attack” on Correia.
nvenient. If something does somehow come up you can bet UA will be asking what she did during the intervening week...Quote:
nvenient. If something does somehow come up you can bet UA will be asking what she did during the intervening week...
Because you typically can't just go see world-leading experts in medicine on a day's notice....Originally Posted by Xyzzy
I loved this part:If her hands are so delicate and in such possible peril why wait a week for an exam? I guess it isn't c
nvenient. If something does somehow come up you can bet UA will be asking what she did during the intervening week...
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Musicians ship instruments to luthiers (I think), woodwind repair people, and the like all the timeI do, at least. But the issue if traveling by air is, if you're asking why don't we just ship to destination with the 24+ hours that takes, you might as well ask why don't we drive to destination X. Many musicians log plenty of road miles, too....if you're flying, you need the instrument on both ends of the journey for practice/rehearsal/performance, so onto the plane it goes.Originally Posted by kb9522
Out of curiosity, why don't musicians ship their instruments in, for example, well padded pelican cases? I, fairly regularly, have to travel with delicate equipment far more valuable than most instruments (which I'm guessing are less than a few million USD)... These items are always shipped in this manner to my destination. Never had a single issue.
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Temperature stress in the hold/outside is higher, and the psychological stress of being separated (worry of loss, etc) means that carrying on is a lot easier all things considered.Originally Posted by kb9522
Out of curiosity, why don't musicians ship their instruments in, for example, well padded pelican cases? I, fairly regularly, have to travel with delicate equipment far more valuable than most instruments (which I'm guessing are less than a few million USD)... These items are always shipped in this manner to my destination. Never had a single issue.
Now, trying to attempt this on a BE fare.. that seems crazy.
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Then add in the confusion around United's musical instrument policy and you have recipe for confusion.
http://www.news1130.com/2017/06/06/v...th-instrument/
Ugh. Of course she had purchased BE. United really needs to issue guidance on this with the BE rollout—alongside the DOT policy to accommodate musical instruments in the cabin, both the musician's union and DOT recommend that musicians pay up for early boarding where possible to make sure that there is room for their carry-on instruments.Originally Posted by gglave
This was my first assumption. BE ticket = No overhead bin.Then add in the confusion around United's musical instrument policy and you have recipe for confusion.
http://www.news1130.com/2017/06/06/v...th-instrument/
But see screenshot of the BE warning attached: it says nothing about boarding last. It does say you can't bring on a "full size" carry-on, but that is a contradiction of the DOT policy on musical instruments which says they should be accommodated if space is available and they can be stowed safely.
And of course the supervisor was impatient. The BE rollout is no doubt leading to many interactions with frustrated pax.
tldr; musicians don't buy BE, UA staff don't be jerks in enforcing BE policies with customers who are "surprised and delighted" about the new policies

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Originally Posted by symphonicman
Musicians ship instruments to luthiers (I think), woodwind repair people, and the like all the timeI do, at least. But the issue if traveling by air is, if you're asking why don't we just ship to destination with the 24+ hours that takes, you might as well ask why don't we drive to destination X. Many musicians log plenty of road miles, too....if you're flying, you need the instrument on both ends of the journey for practice/rehearsal/performance, so onto the plane it goes.
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Now, trying to attempt this on a BE fare.. that seems crazy.
Fair points. Except for the separation anxiety, which seems a bit ridiculous.Originally Posted by findark
Temperature stress in the hold/outside is higher, and the psychological stress of being separated (worry of loss, etc) means that carrying on is a lot easier all things considered.Now, trying to attempt this on a BE fare.. that seems crazy.
I guess it makes sense now why people buy seats for their instruments... not sure why this individual didn't.
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Because a violin easily fits in the overhead bin, even on an ERJ. People buy extra seats for cellos or tubas, because they don't. Double bassists, harpists, and even percussionists will sometimes check in a specially designed flight case, though even there rough handling has doomed many an instrument.Originally Posted by kb9522
I guess it makes sense now why people buy seats for their instruments... not sure why this individual didn't.
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Agree on both points but RE point #1 - It's possible someone else bought the ticket for her and she just didn't know.Originally Posted by symphonicman
tldr; musicians don't buy BE, UA staff don't be jerks in enforcing BE policies with customers who are "surprised and delighted" about the new policies
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They have a BE FAQ atOriginally Posted by symphonicman
Ugh. Of course she had purchased BE. United really needs to issue guidance on this with the BE rolloutalongside the DOT policy to accommodate musical instruments in the cabin, both the musician's union and DOT recommend that musicians pay up for early boarding where possible to make sure that there is room for their carry-on instruments.
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...onomy-faq.aspx
that includes this:
Q: What is the carry-on policy for musical instruments on a Basic Economy ticket?
A: In the case of customers who purchased a Basic Economy ticket, a small musical instrument may be carried on instead of a small personal item as long as the instrument can be stowed in the overhead bin or under the seat in front of the customer at the time of boarding. A larger musical instrument that does not fit in the overhead bin and is brought to the gate will be checked to your final destination and subject to the applicable checked baggage fees plus a $25 gate handling charge (payment by credit card only).
One of the articles mentions a suitcase. So she perhaps had more than one item.
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I guess it wasn't clear whether you meant check it in the hold, or ship it separately. Separate shipping is just a logistical hassle as symphonicman mentioned. As far as checked baggage, I know a lot of musicians who wouldn't let their instruments disappear into that system. Even on the base financial side of it, letting a bag worth thousands to tens of thousands of dollars float on a baggage carousel is crazy. I get mildly nervous when I check things of sentimental value. I can't imagine doing that with something that was my life and career.Originally Posted by kb9522
Fair points. Except for the separation anxiety, which seems a bit ridiculous.
But as I said, the idea that a professional violinist wouldn't pay more attention to baggage restrictions like BE is mind-boggling. For most musicians I know, policies regarding carrying on instruments are forefront in their mind when arranging travel.
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https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...onomy-faq.aspx
that includes this:
[I]Q: What is the carry-on policy for musical instruments on a Basic Economy ticket?
One of the articles mentions a suitcase. So she perhaps had more than one item.
Ah, thank you, great find. On the suitcase, sounded like it was about to get checked (something about a sticker getting pulled off in the news reports), so seems like pax was 100% correct and the supervisor did not know about the musical instrument exception.Originally Posted by notquiteaff
They have a BE FAQ athttps://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...onomy-faq.aspx
that includes this:
[I]Q: What is the carry-on policy for musical instruments on a Basic Economy ticket?
One of the articles mentions a suitcase. So she perhaps had more than one item.
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https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...onomy-faq.aspx
that includes this:
Q: What is the carry-on policy for musical instruments on a Basic Economy ticket?
A: In the case of customers who purchased a Basic Economy ticket, a small musical instrument may be carried on instead of a small personal item as long as the instrument can be stowed in the overhead bin or under the seat in front of the customer at the time of boarding. A larger musical instrument that does not fit in the overhead bin and is brought to the gate will be checked to your final destination and subject to the applicable checked baggage fees plus a $25 gate handling charge (payment by credit card only).
One of the articles mentions a suitcase. So she perhaps had more than one item.
BE fare have been introduced for some time, yes I have not once see in on any of my UA flights in the US during time of booking. is it only offered on select flights or were they just sold out on the flights I fly on? I fly about 60k BIS miles a year on UA. I'm a cheapskate and always book the lowest possible fare, so I figure I should have at least seen it once or twice by now?Originally Posted by notquiteaff
They have a BE FAQ athttps://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...onomy-faq.aspx
that includes this:
Q: What is the carry-on policy for musical instruments on a Basic Economy ticket?
A: In the case of customers who purchased a Basic Economy ticket, a small musical instrument may be carried on instead of a small personal item as long as the instrument can be stowed in the overhead bin or under the seat in front of the customer at the time of boarding. A larger musical instrument that does not fit in the overhead bin and is brought to the gate will be checked to your final destination and subject to the applicable checked baggage fees plus a $25 gate handling charge (payment by credit card only).
One of the articles mentions a suitcase. So she perhaps had more than one item.











