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Layer on top of that TSA rules and CBP rules and it's no wonder passengers are clueless.
Rules that often seem to almost be designed to be unnecessarily complex (just look at the *A/UA lounge access rules and the number of threads they trigger). One of the reasons, perhaps, why many casual travelers have come to appreciate WN. Life is simple(r) in that world.Originally Posted by gglave
FT is also highly critical of passengers' failure to understand the airlines' tangled web of rules, policies and procedures - Rules that appear to change almost monthly.Layer on top of that TSA rules and CBP rules and it's no wonder passengers are clueless.
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Layer on top of that TSA rules and CBP rules and it's no wonder passengers are clueless.
She's a musician--frequent flyer, she should be aware of the rules, but perhaps someone else put her on that fare.Originally Posted by gglave
FT is also highly critical of passengers' failure to understand the airlines' tangled web of rules, policies and procedures - Rules that appear to change almost monthly.Layer on top of that TSA rules and CBP rules and it's no wonder passengers are clueless.
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That's what I'm thinking. Perhaps someone at the orchestra purchased the ticket, or she could have an agent who helps with travel logistics. I don't know what the norm would be for professional classical musicians at her level.Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel
She's a musician--frequent flyer, she should be aware of the rules, but perhaps someone else put her on that fare.
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And to top it all off, English is not my mom's first language. She's proficient, but not completely fluent.
So, forgive me, if I'm skeptical on why the average American can't seem to figure this out. I assure you my mom doesn't sit on the internet all day Googling UA baggage policies, boarding procedures, wheelchair policy, how to travel with a medical necessity, etc.
Amen. Originally Posted by laxmillenial
In the past decade, my parents (no travel background for work, no airline loyalty, they're not flyertalk forum lurkers) have flown once a year. Sometimes once every two years. They understand the tickets they buy: Nonrefundable. No free checked bags. What size a bag must be to qualify as a 'carry-on'. How many pieces of carry on luggage they can have per person. How to qualify for pre-boarding if necessary. How boarding groups work / when to board. How Basic economy works. How E+ is different than E-. They understand what can go through TSA security and what can't. And on the one time that they get Pre Check randomly, they understand what can stay in the bag and what can't after reading the pre-check sign for about a minute. My mom is the one usually understanding and comprehending this.And to top it all off, English is not my mom's first language. She's proficient, but not completely fluent.
So, forgive me, if I'm skeptical on why the average American can't seem to figure this out. I assure you my mom doesn't sit on the internet all day Googling UA baggage policies, boarding procedures, wheelchair policy, how to travel with a medical necessity, etc.
Travel is not rocket science.
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Travel is not rocket science.
No - but a lot of travelers find some aspects confusing. For example, think of an infrequent traveler. After being told (and yelled at by TSA) for years to take off their shoes and to take out their liquids and laptops, the person winds up selected for TSA-Pre. Suddenly the person is told to do just the opposite. That can be quite confusing.Originally Posted by kb9522
Amen.Travel is not rocket science.
The same g
es for BE where some basic long established rules regarding seat assignments and carry-on baggage have changed. While buying BE from United directly, United makes its rules abundantly clear. Buying through other channels does not necessarily offer the same (or any) warnings.Quote:
The same ges for BE where some basic long established rules regarding seat assignments and carry-on baggage have changed. While buying BE from United directly, United makes its rules abundantly clear. Buying through other channels does not necessarily offer the same (or any) warnings.
Ignorance is never a good excuse. Originally Posted by Xyzzy
No - but a lot of travelers find some aspects confusing. For example, think of an infrequent traveler. After being told (and yelled at by TSA) for years to take off their shoes and to take out their liquids and laptops, the person winds up selected for TSA-Pre. Suddenly the person is told to do just the opposite. That can be quite confusing.The same g
es for BE where some basic long established rules regarding seat assignments and carry-on baggage have changed. While buying BE from United directly, United makes its rules abundantly clear. Buying through other channels does not necessarily offer the same (or any) warnings.
It really is not difficult to follow instructions.
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It really is not difficult to follow instructions.
No it's not - but in these two cases the instructions are changed in unexpected ways that are the polar Originally Posted by kb9522
Ignorance is never a good excuse.It really is not difficult to follow instructions.
pposite of what past experience dictates. This is particularly true in the TSA Pre example, where TSA staff traditionally yells instructions and everyone tunes out the yelling, The inexperienced traveler can find this to be quite frustrating.Quote:
pposite of what past experience dictates. This is particularly true in the TSA Pre example, where TSA staff traditionally yells instructions and everyone tunes out the yelling, The inexperienced traveler can find this to be quite frustrating.
The instructions are also clearly made available through multiple devices. As far as "tuning out the yelling"... that is the fault of the traveler. When someone in a position of authority (like it or not TSA employees have authority at a checkpoint) instructs you to do something... you listen carefully and do it. Again, not rocket science.Originally Posted by Xyzzy
No it's not - but in these two cases the instructions are changed in unexpected ways that are the polar pposite of what past experience dictates. This is particularly true in the TSA Pre example, where TSA staff traditionally yells instructions and everyone tunes out the yelling, The inexperienced traveler can find this to be quite frustrating.
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This post should be framed. Its an attitude the under-girds so much of the disputes on FT. If you believe it, you are likely to line up with the airline (particularly United) in any dispute, if you don't well then you will see most issues in a very different light.Originally Posted by kb9522
When someone in a position of authority...instructs you to do something... you listen carefully and do it.
Just refreshing to see is stated so boldly, no hiding here.
and P.s. Welcome to FT!
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Just refreshing to see is stated so boldly, no hiding here.
and P.s. Welcome to FT!
Thanks for the welcome Originally Posted by spin88
This post should be framed. Its an attitude the under-girds so much of the disputes on FT. If you believe it, you are likely to line up with the airline (particularly United) in any dispute, if you don't well then you will see most issues in a very different light.Just refreshing to see is stated so boldly, no hiding here.
and P.s. Welcome to FT!
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We do not live in a totalitarian state. When someone in authority tells you do do something you feel is wrong, you have the obligation as a free thinking citizen to question it.Originally Posted by kb9522
When someone in a position of authority (like it or not TSA employees have authority at a checkpoint) instructs you to do something... you listen carefully and do it. Again, not rocket science.
You might as well click your boot heels together while obeying blindly.
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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That's submission. You, of course, can do what you want, but I most certainly will not automatically defer to "someone in a position of authority," if I know them to be wrong, or if I even have any questions about their "orders." TSOs aren't the Gestapo (though many of them seem to wish that they were) and airline employees are just that: employees of the airline.Originally Posted by kb9522
When someone in a position of authority (like it or not TSA employees have authority at a checkpoint) instructs you to do something... you listen carefully and do it. Again, not rocket science.
Blind submission to authority is fundamentally un-American.
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You might as well click your boot heels together while obeying blindly.
Originally Posted by osxanalyst
We do not live in a totalitarian state. When someone in authority tells you do do something you feel is wrong, you have the obligation as a free thinking citizen to question it.You might as well click your boot heels together while obeying blindly.
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Blind submission to authority is fundamentally un-American.
Originally Posted by PTravel
That's submission. You, of course, can do what you want, but I most certainly will not automatically defer to "someone in a position of authority," if I know them to be wrong, or if I even have any questions about their "orders." TSOs aren't the Gestapo (though many of them seem to wish that they were) and airline employees are just that: employees of the airline.Blind submission to authority is fundamentally un-American.
We're talking about when they shout out laptops and liquids out, or jackets off and other lawful commands. Not "go punch a baby in the face". But yeah, go ahead, interpret things out of context.
Do I think it applies to directions from airline staff that are within the terms and conditions both parties agreed to when the sale was made? Absolutely.
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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This discussion is about the interaction between a GA and a violinist over a carry-on, not about TSOs shouting to take out laptops. And if I were in the PRE line and a TSO shouted this, my response would be, "why?"Originally Posted by kb9522
We're talking about when they shout out laptops and liquids out, or jackets off and other lawful commands. Not "go punch a baby in the face". But yeah, go ahead, interpret things out of context.
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Do I think it applies to directions from airline staff that are within the terms and conditions both parties agreed to when the sale was made? Absolutely.
Under what circumstances is it acceptable for a GA to grab a carryon away from someone?Do I think it applies to directions from airline staff that are within the terms and conditions both parties agreed to when the sale was made? Absolutely.
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My post was in response to a hypothetical posed by another user. Perhaps you would do well to read the conversation before jumping in. Originally Posted by PTravel
This discussion is about the interaction between a GA and a violinist over a carry-on, not about TSOs shouting to take out laptops. And if I were in the PRE line and a TSO shouted this, my response would be, "why?"
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Under what circumstances is it acceptable for a GA to grab a carryon away from someone?
I've already answered this question.Under what circumstances is it acceptable for a GA to grab a carryon away from someone?