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United's Basic Economy - Discussion, Q&A, ... {Archive}

Old Feb 9, 2019, 5:12 pm
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Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread -- the active thread is United's Basic Economy - Discussion, Q&A, ...

Important Note: these fares became available 21 Feb 2017 for MSP for travel beginning 18 Apr 2017. More markets were added 19 April 2017 for travel starting 9 May 2017.

Related thread: Basic Economy Airport and Plane Experiences (First or Second Hand)

If you booked before the dates above, you did not have a BE fare. If purchased on united.com you will see a warning like:


4. MileagePlus members will earn full Premier qualifying dollars, 50% Premier qualifying miles and 0.5 Premier qualifying segments for each flight, as well as lifetime miles and toward the four-segment minimum.



Link to UA's description of how these fares will work: Basic Economy.

Here are the key facts:
  • No seat assignments until check-in. Seats will be assigned by the system and cannot be changed.
    *NEW* When purchasing a Basic Economy ticket, you will not receive a complimentary seat assignment but may be able to purchase advance seat assignments during booking and up until check-in opens. If you dont purchase an advance seat assignment, your seat will be automatically assigned to you prior to boarding, and you won't be able to change your seat once it's been assigned.
  • No guarantee of adjacent seats with companions
  • No voluntary ticket changes after 24 hour purchase period
  • Carry on limited to 1 personal item unless the customer is a MP Premier member, primary cardmember of a qualifying MileagePlus credit card, or Star Alliance *G
  • Customers ineligible for carry-on who bring one to the gate will be charged a $25 convenience fee to gate-check in addition to standard baggage fees (source: @united twitter)
  • Customers will not be eligible for Economy Plus or premium cabin upgrades. This includes all forms of upgrades (CPU,supported or purchased). Likewise for E+ access (elite or purchased).
  • Customers will board in the last boarding group (currently Group 5) unless the customer is a MP Premier member, primary cardmember of a qualifying MileagePlus credit card, or Star Alliance *G
  • Companions on same PNR will have same boarding group and carryon if one on the PNR has a waiver
  • No combinability with regular economy fares or partner carriers. Interline travel is not permitted.
  • Tickets will earn RDMs (based on fare and status), PQMs (50% of distance), PQSs (0.5), PQDs, in addition it will count for minimum 4 segment and lifetime miles (New as of Dec 2018)
  • Basic Economy tickets will use booking code 'N'
  • Online check-in only with paid checked bag, otherwise need to see a United representative to verify the onboard bag allowance and receive a boarding pass.
In air, passengers will receive the same standard economy inflight amenities including United Economy dining options, inflight entertainment, United Wi-Fi (availability depending on the flight)

related threads
New UA/*A TATL -LGT Economy fare - no free first bag, no changes/upgrades allowed

Benefit impact of restricted economy fares on UA Elites (Basic Econ, -LGT, Light Econ

Pre-announcement speculation thread (now closed) New "Budget Economy" fares
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United's Basic Economy - Discussion, Q&A, ... {Archive}

Old Jun 9, 2017, 3:37 pm
  #1861  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
Originally Posted by fly18725
I'd point out that you are drawing an unsupported conclusion as to the meaning of "disadvantage."
I think from context - UA doing BE as a "Frequent Flyer/Mileage Plus Tax" on basically everyone flying in Y, vs just offering it on the very lowest buckets - we can assume that Kirby saying that compared to DL/AA United was at a "disadvantage" (which means "place in an unfavorable position in relation to someone or something else") is NOT a good thing.

The context is clear, Kirby is reporting to the analysts at a conference of airline analysts, and is reporting back on what the Hunter Keays of the world wanted - to monetize the status lock in - and how it is going.

As I have said from the start, what United is doing will turn off traffic as they figure out how United is trying to rip them off. Since it involves elite traffic, it is even more risky. Kirby is just stating to Analyists that what the demanded is not working so hot - and (this is where IMHO comes in. ) OALs had better come around quickly or UA might have to dial it back some.
spin88 is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2017, 4:52 pm
  #1862  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Posts: 4,419
I have now been told to fly AA. My company is a big AA customer and a few of us fly UA. Every flight i looked at booking this week had this fare. Even a flight as close as 24 hours. This will hurt UA in the long run.
LASUA1K is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2017, 5:27 pm
  #1863  
 
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Originally Posted by LASUA1K
I have now been told to fly AA. My company is a big AA customer and a few of us fly UA. Every flight i looked at booking this week had this fare. Even a flight as close as 24 hours. This will hurt UA in the long run.
And I would tell you the same thing. Why should your company pay more to fly UA? E.g. I have to go SFO-SEA-SFO this coming Thursday/Friday. UA demands I pay $491 for a BE, with a $30 up-charge to Y. Delta/VX, etc are $477 for the flights I want.

If UA does not want to honor my status (or yours) unless we pay more, why would we fly them? Over a year of my flights, were I flying UA, I would be paying at least $600 in "status tax" to UA. It is basically a rip-off airline at this point.

So Glad I gave up on them, always searching for some way to wing you either with extra charges or take aways.
spin88 is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2017, 5:40 pm
  #1864  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Originally Posted by spin88
And I would tell you the same thing. Why should your company pay more to fly UA? E.g. I have to go SFO-SEA-SFO this coming Thursday/Friday. UA demands I pay $491 for a BE, with a $30 up-charge to Y. Delta/VX, etc are $477 for the flights I want.

If UA does not want to honor my status (or yours) unless we pay more, why would we fly them? Over a year of my flights, were I flying UA, I would be paying at least $600 in "status tax" to UA. It is basically a rip-off airline at this point.

So Glad I gave up on them, always searching for some way to wing you either with extra charges or take aways.
I agree. The regular AA fare is between $5-12bucks more, UA "regular" fare is 20.00 on almost every flight I priced. My company has basically said, in markets UA has this fare, you book that or you book the AA fare. I understand it's not much more but it's "out of policy now".

UA you will lose more than you will gain. Pull these fares.
LASUA1K is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2017, 10:09 pm
  #1865  
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In reaction to this nonsense I just booked my first ever VX flight, SAN-SFO. $262 for F vs. $255 flexible fare on UA with very low CPU odds.
Kacee is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2017, 10:13 pm
  #1866  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Originally Posted by Kacee
In reaction to this nonsense I just booked my first ever VX flight, SAN-SFO. $262 for F vs. $255 flexible fare on UA with very low CPU odds.
You may decide to never go back. I prefer MCS to E+, but the edge is not huge, the edge in VX F is huge...
spin88 is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2017, 10:52 pm
  #1867  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
Posts: 1,313
Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
What are you going to do when AA rolls out its BE?

Seems you might as well start talking to your travel folks now about the problems of BE for the business traveler (no changeability, paid bags, ..... no need to go into the elite traveler issues).
Exactly what I was thinking. The real problem isn't UA, it's the company. It's a short-term move at best to go exclusively to the airline that's simply been the slowest to roll out BE. What really needs to happen is to weed out BE fares from all carriers. It's only a matter of time.

Originally Posted by spin88
AA's BE will not be on all fares, just like Delta's are not. on DL and AA it only impacts restricted fare brackets, in nearly every case bought in advance, and as such is not likely to impact someone using a company travel portal. I have looked at hundreads of thousands of miles of trips on DL since they rolled out BE and have, as I recall, seen a BE fare only ONCE.
Have a confirming source for that projective statement?

The truth is we have no idea what AA and DL's responses will be down the road. UA is forcing their hand. It's very much like the revenue-based miles change. Except this time UA is leading the race to the bottom. It's going to hard for AA and DL to turn down that revenue.

Besides, if the quality of the product is highly correlated with revenue, why hasn't DL been pricing their product higher all these years in the first place? They should have been able to get away with it. Must be clueless in their revenue department....

Originally Posted by spin88
In summary the extreme version of BE is what the Hunter Keays of the world pushed on United, and trying to lead the industry in the direction the Hunter Keays of the world want, is a "disadvantage" according to Kirby. I take this as a big sign that United will roll back its extreme version of BE (which is basically a loyality tax) if others don't follow.

But meanwhile, OALs are a very good option, just another reason to bail on United.
Delta has had a form of this "loyalty tax" for years now without rollback or any apparent negative side effects. Don't expect this to go away anytime soon, if ever. It must be working.

Originally Posted by spin88
And I would tell you the same thing. Why should your company pay more to fly UA?
Superior operational performance and network are two very good reasons for business travelers (and all travelers for that matter) to fly UA.
minnyfly is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2017, 10:57 pm
  #1868  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,360
Originally Posted by spin88
I think from context - UA doing BE as a "Frequent Flyer/Mileage Plus Tax" on basically everyone flying in Y, vs just offering it on the very lowest buckets - we can assume that Kirby saying that compared to DL/AA United was at a "disadvantage" (which means "place in an unfavorable position in relation to someone or something else") is NOT a good thing.

The context is clear, Kirby is reporting to the analysts at a conference of airline analysts, and is reporting back on what the Hunter Keays of the world wanted - to monetize the status lock in - and how it is going.

As I have said from the start, what United is doing will turn off traffic as they figure out how United is trying to rip them off. Since it involves elite traffic, it is even more risky. Kirby is just stating to Analyists that what the demanded is not working so hot - and (this is where IMHO comes in. ) OALs had better come around quickly or UA might have to dial it back some.
No, the context isn't clear because you read a limited quote in a Flight Global article after neither attending or listening to the presentation. (Note: you can listen to the call after providing personal information to DB.)

Here's the reality: Kirby didn't actually say disadvantage. He did speak in some detail about how United is currently uncompetitive with AA because they are currently competing head to head with different fare structures.
fly18725 is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2017, 11:09 pm
  #1869  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Originally Posted by fly18725
Here's the reality: Kirby didn't actually say disadvantage. He did speak in some detail about how United is currently uncompetitive with AA because they are currently competing head to head with different fare structures.
Thanks for the detail. I didn't even physically listen to the presentation, and that's the message I got out of it.

Reporting these days isn't what it used to be...
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Old Jun 9, 2017, 11:20 pm
  #1870  
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Originally Posted by spin88
You may decide to never go back. I prefer MCS to E+, but the edge is not huge, the edge in VX F is huge...
VX F is amazing. Sadly in my experience they typically ask a huge premium to UA F (especially on SFO-NYC/WAS). For same price to UA Y it's a no-brainer.
findark is offline  
Old Jun 10, 2017, 8:11 am
  #1871  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Posts: 4,419
Originally Posted by minnyfly
Exactly what I was thinking. The real problem isn't UA, it's the company. It's a short-term move at best to go exclusively to the airline that's simply been the slowest to roll out BE. What really needs to happen is to weed out BE fares from all carriers. It's only a matter of time.


Have a confirming source for that projective statement?

The truth is we have no idea what AA and DL's responses will be down the road. UA is forcing their hand. It's very much like the revenue-based miles change. Except this time UA is leading the race to the bottom. It's going to hard for AA and DL to turn down that revenue.

Besides, if the quality of the product is highly correlated with revenue, why hasn't DL been pricing their product higher all these years in the first place? They should have been able to get away with it. Must be clueless in their revenue department....


Delta has had a form of this "loyalty tax" for years now without rollback or any apparent negative side effects. Don't expect this to go away anytime soon, if ever. It must be working.



Superior operational performance and network are two very good reasons for business travelers (and all travelers for that matter) to fly UA.
Superior operational performance and network? Being based in ORD, I'm forced to fly AA now. I can go pretty much anywhere non stop on both airlines. This is a bad move.
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Old Jun 10, 2017, 9:03 am
  #1872  
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Originally Posted by LASUA1K
Superior operational performance and network? Being based in ORD, I'm forced to fly AA now. I can go pretty much anywhere non stop on both airlines. This is a bad move.
I am seeing a number of people at work buying BE fares for personal travel. These people maybe travel 2 times a year and all they are looking at is price. What I don't see a lot of Delta Basic Economy fares being bought.
TomMM is offline  
Old Jun 10, 2017, 9:04 am
  #1873  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: LA
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I recently booked UA LAX-PHX. Even with the $15 ($20?) up charge I didn't hesitate as I wasn't going to fly AA/WN/DL with schedules that didn't work to save $15. Full disclosure this was business travel and purchased with OPM.

To me, the bigger issue is OTAs and other sites that don't list out BE fares in the search. Initially Google flights did not point out the fare was BE. It was an unpleasant surprise when I clicked over to UA to purchase and the fare did not align with my expectations.

What I think this will continue to do is push people to more carefully consider all their options. UA must think even with passengers shopping around (and the inevitable purchasing away from UA) they will still make more money with an across the board fare hike. I'm inclined to believe they are right.
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Old Jun 10, 2017, 11:13 am
  #1874  
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DL people said the stuff back when DL's BE fares were "young". It took a bit, but most employers either removed BE fares from their policy or simply pulled them from the corporate booking portal.

Even if the fares are a good deal in general, they are a poor deal for most businesses because they are completely inflexible. The small cash savings do not stand up to any business model even when the employees have fixed travel schedules (people still get sick, leave and so on).

Unless UA & AA have corporate customers with a different business profile, the same thing will happen with BE on these two carriers.

People here are ranting at the wrong company. This is your employer's issue.
Often1 is offline  
Old Jun 10, 2017, 11:17 am
  #1875  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Originally Posted by minnyfly


Superior operational performance and network are two very good reasons for business travelers (and all travelers for that matter) to fly UA.
Statements like "Superior operational performance" and "UA" are mutually exclusive and should never be used within one sentence! My experience is completely different and I fly UA out of four continents. As far as superior network is concerned, that is highly debatable and vastly exaggerated at best.
.
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