seat38a

The worst FA still to date for me has been on Alaska Airlines SEA -> LAX. I have not had any issues on United so far. I've got 4 flights coming up in BF and FC and I hope I can keep my good luck up with service. Couple weeks ago, on our flight out of IAH, we did have a FA that was like "Don't F&*( With Me" look on her face and her actions. My mom noticed it as well. Thankfully she was working in economy and we did not have to deal with her after the safety demo. As she was walking through the FC cabin, you could hear her muttering something about a passenger in back plus she threw down the safety demo pouch on the galley counter.

I hope no one in economy got her wrath.

tuolumne

Devils advocate:

FAs are treated like slime and fast food workers by passengers in a daily basis - some of the "suggestions" (only 20 years olds on tempt contracts) or "theories" (this is all b/c of seniority) in this very thread confirm the contempt and disdain for FAs - "they are less than me", they are overpaid, and not worth much.

The public's demand for low fares at all costs was a contributing factor that sent the large airlines into Ch. 11 in the 00s - where the pmUA FAs lost their guaranteed pension plan.

FAs were arguably mistreated and outright lied to by previous management teams - concessions were endless and when said company stated making $ again, management was playing hardball with new contracts (Smisek-strategy)

All of these aforementioned concessions, along with the emotional scarring of 9/11 and Ch. 11, were not acknowledged in a respectful and honorable way by previous and new (post merger) management - this continued a toxic culture of pmUAs labor relations.

It is absolutely not a surprise that Oscar Munoz's first order of business, much to the chagrin of Wall-street analysts, was to tour the system and meet the different labor groups.

Yes, the particular FA in question was out of line. Now how about we ask ourselves why we have a whole thread full of similar employees. Why are they this way? What happened? What can we do to change it? All I see in this thread is whining and finger pointing - nobody is asking what structural factors have led us here.

bmwe92fan

I've never thought of something being understandable and something being right as the same thing... If you can't deliver proper service in a service industry job then one shouldn't blame the industry - just change your job...

tuolumne

That's a weak and flimsy response. So easy to write, but in the real world it isn't as black and white as that now is it

bmwe92fan

Well to me it is - everyone in life has a choice - be a victim or take responsibility for changing your situation - blaming UA for the past and using it as justification for poor service and desire to work gets you exactly what? Nothing.

Look - I'm not saying what has happened and what UA did to its employees is right or justified - but the choice remains the same for current employees - do I live in the past and be a victim, or do I do something and make a positive change?

TomMM

A couple of years ago on a UX flight I was talking to the FA who told me that she didn't like traveling. Being nice I didn't say it but was thinking "you are in the wrong line of work".

Ber2dca

The view I presented has nothing to do with how I treat FAs or view them, it has to do with the realities of the industry.

You mention quite a few reasons as to why FAs could feel mistreated by their employer yet none of those 'veteran' FAs have quit. Why? Because no matter how many grievances they have, FA at UA is probably the best job they can realistically hope for. They're in a 'golden cage' of their own making. You've got seniority, you've got a decent salary - and basically little in the way of job experience or skills that would recommend you for a better paid job in another industry.

That's why it's a career trap. Long-time FAs will reach the point where quitting doesn't seem feasible yet further advancement is all but impossible. And at that point you can only perform when you enjoy your job, like really enjoy it. And I don't mean parts of it like traveling or socializing with your co-workers but the key parts of your job i.e. the ones that involve interaction with the customer.

There are no doubt long-time FAs who do, and those are treasures, but it's not for everyone or even the majority of people. It's not easy to show up for work *every day* and put on a smile and service attitude when you really don't feel very well. I get it, it's much easier said than done. But if you find yourself having a harder time to do that every passing day, it's time to get out and do something better with your life. Of course, a 45+ year old FA is probably past the 'point of no return' here, which is why I suggest to not have 45+ year old FAs. It's doing them a favor and it's doing the customer a favor.

GRALISTAIR

Copy Delta - said seriously - not tongue in cheek.

bmwe92fan

And again my point - how we got here is irrelevant - all that matters is what happens going forward - crappy service that some here can justify is still crappy service....

GRALISTAIR

Oh trust me - I totally agree. It is why I fly United only when I have to.

physioprof

I once had the opposite experience chatting with a UX FA as she was explaining how tough the scheduling and everything is and how hard it is to make a decent living on UX. So I asked, Wouldn't you rather do something else? She looked at me like I was crazy, and said, I love to fly! I'd rather be in the air than anywhere else!

tuolumne

I don't think their FA unity has exclusively to do with the fact that they are non-union. In fact, I believe that + - a decade they will be fully represented.

And it's not like it matters - UAL is a costal/northern airline. They will never not be heavily unionized. It's a fantasy to entertain ideas where they wouldn't be.

bmwe92fan

Ok - you've totally lost me - I can't figure out what you are trying to say any more....

porciuscato

I spend a lot of time on planes -- mostly up front -- and I find that nearly all the passengers are solicitous, bordering on obsequious toward the FAs.

Is there contempt and disdain for them in this thread? There certainly is contempt and disdain for their behavior. And it's clearly justified by the experiences described.

So we have a monopoly (the FA union) wrestling with a monopsony (United). Gee, who to feel sorry for...

Why are they this way? Easy, it is common human nature, when you don't have to answer to anyone for your performance, when you get paid more simply for hanging around longer, and when it is nearly impossible to remove you no matter who lame you are. About 30% of employees will sink to the lowest common denominator in this environment.

You will see very similar behavior in employees at:

* The Post Office
* The DMV
* Public schools
* Any govt. office in a 3rd world country

No surprise, because these places have similar employment arrangements.

Solutions? Here's just a start:

1) In the next contract negotiation, offer a merit pay scheme that is based on actual performance rather than seniority. Phase the seniority system out. Make performance bonuses significant, e.g. 10-20% of pay.

2) Require every single customer-facing employee to wear a legible name tag. It doesn't have to be a real name, just something unique and recognizable, like our tags on FT. Make it a firing offense to not wear it or to turn it over so nobody can see it.

3) Start regular "employee of the month/year" programs, based 100% on passenger feedback, to recognize the best FAs. Winners get bonuses and photos shaking hands with Oscar in the Hemispheres mag.

tuolumne

"Copying Delta" vis-a-vis FAs means getting rid of unions....something that will never happen at UAL (or AA). What part confuses you?