kettle1

You are correct - the nonsmoking light. Once it was turned off it was pure bliss at 35,000 feet in a tube of metal with 50 cigs being puffed at the same time.

Perhaps a mechanic could chime in. I heard many years ago that the nicotine would show hairline cracks in planes well before scheduled maintenance was required. Perhaps myth busters could check this out. @:-)

freshairborne

My two hockey pucks are if the seat belt sign has been on for an extended period of time and I "have to go", I will ask one of the f/a's if the Captain is planning to turn off the seat belt sign soon and wait a little while to see if that happens. If it does get turned off, great-but if it doesn't, I'll "go about my business" but on my way to the lav, I will tell the first f/a I see that "I know the seat belt sign is still on, but I really have to go "
Moe, Larry, the cheese

Just got off a 9 hour flight where the seat belt light was on gate to gate. At 2 hours or so, I followed Goalie's suggestion (not remembering at the time that it was Goalie's) and was told that it would be on for the whole flight. Something about "passenger management".

I'd be interested in FAB's view on this. Mine is that this is more dangerous - since people will need to be up because of biology, having the light all the time puts the decision on when it is safest in the hands of the passengers, not the pilot. I would rather it be in the hands of the pilot.


Every captain has a different philosophy on the use of the seat belt sign. It's a bell curve thing in that the vast majority of us see it pretty similarly, then there are those few on the fringes.

If it's on too much during smooth rides, people get desensitized to it. If it's off during bumpy rides, people can get hurt.

The FAs know how to deal with bumps better than any passenger, and airline policy is that they are allowed up sometimes when passengers aren't.

There are actual descriptions of varying types of turbulence and chop, but it's beyond any discussion here. Suffice it to say, if a passenger ignores the seat belt sign then gets injured because of it, the deep pockets will not suffer unless they're your own.

FAB

Loren Pechtel

FAs will have a lot more experience walking in turbulence than even an elite passenger. Thus I can understand the pilots being a bit more lenient with the FAs. If it gets bad there's no answer but belts and the pilots have the FAs sit also.

freshairborne

They could care less. Most smaller commuter airlines leave it on always. That doesn't make it the best choice, of course.

FAB

freshairborne

I'm with you on that.

FAB

Miles Ahead

Good thing they don't fly 8 or 9 hour flights! (On multiple levels)

N1120A

Leaving the belt sign on for the whole (in the case of a lot of regionals) or most of the flight is a good way to desensitize passengers and FAs to the need to obey it. You get a lot more people getting up with the belt sign on in the US, where it is kept on for ridiculous lengths, than you do on other airlines.

AC is a great example. They turn the sign off at 10,000 feet, and then only turn it on where they are getting poor rides/ride reports. People are glued to their seats when the sign is on.

I was once on a US flight - in late July 2001 - where the captain kept the sign on for an entire LAX-PHL flight, despite a glass smooth ride for the entire flight. Even the FAs were saying "if you need to use the bathroom, we're not going to stop you."

Boo_Radley

+1. Leaving it on is just "crying wolf". If we've been smooth for 45 minutes, but the sign is on w/ no explanation from the crew, I'll just ignore it. Generally, though, the crew provides an explanation in this situation if the sign is warranted.

MojaveFlyer

I was just on one of these DEN-BOS yesterday. Seat belt sign was on until about an hour before we landed. There was almost no turbulence. When I started feeling the urge I started watching the sky (I had a window). Usually I am very strict about obeying the sign. I saw some big clouds ahead and thought he'd turn it off once we got around them. Did not happen. Clear sky ahead after we cleared the weather. I went to the lav.

When I did, the FAs were at the back of the plane (737-800) with the curtains drawn chatting and laughing up a storm. Sure seemed like no one gave a crap about the pax. Gradually more and more pax got up and started using the lav.

If there had been something nasty in front of us that we could not see, could have been a problem. But after an hour or two with the light on and no comment from the cockpit, pax start to ignore it, and that's bad. But I'm not going to sit in my seat and suffer from a full bladder because the cockpit can't be bothered to turn the sign off.

If I had seen an FA walking the aisle I could have asked her to check with the cockpit but they were having their own party at the back of the bus.

ClayPot

I see this "herd mentality " on TPACs all the time. When I say "herd mentality" I don't mean the people are cows. I mean after getting everyone in their seat and the FA is about to close the door one pax jumps up to get something out of the overhead, then three more decide they have to get something out the over head, then a dozen and so on. The people in the front of the plane aren't different then those in the back. But those in the back are more numerous and more crowded. People in big packed crowds behave different than this in loose small crowds then those who are alone.
So basically as a pilot you wait until you really need to go then you apologies, ignore the seatbelt light/the active pilot's instructions and go.

This is very common. After the first person manages to go people, dare I say, become a herd and follow that person's behavior.

Channel 9

On a FRA - SFO once, it was totally clear, but every few hours the sign would come on with no announcement as to why. When it is smooth and the sign comes on, my heart rate automatically rises (like Pavlov's dogs) as I'm now speculating that "Something bad must be up ahead).

After a few mins, it would go off again. No bumps. False alarm.

I soon discovered the Capt or FA were turning it on each time one of them wanted to use the bathroom. After they went and were safely back in the cockpit, the light would come off again.

bmwe92fan

Ok - I've been waiting a few months to post this to be fair but I can't take any more - I'm currently on UA 882 to ORD and after Well over an hour in flight in relatively calm conditions the damn seatbelt sign is still on and I've had enough. Flight attendants are up and serving drinks and food with no issues! Over the past two weeks I've been on 8 global airlines and NONE of them use the seatbelt sign like this - it's ridiculous! The captain said the seatbelt sign will remain on because there MIGHT be turbulence in the next 100 miles - 30 minutes ago. This
Is so common with UA it's a joke - in any other airline as soon as we clear 10k feet the sign is off - unless it's really bad - to me it seems UA uses the seatbelt sign as a crowd control measure - and I just don't get it - is it fear of liability? Easier for flight crews? I've been on over 50 UA flights in the past few months and the pattern is crystal clear - am I the only one that thinks UA is overly conservative in their approach?

TonyBurr

No you are not the only one who thinks like this. UA does keep the seat belt sign on for a very long time. I think part of it is that the crew does not want you out of your seat. Keep them tied in. Foreign airlines keep it off a great deal more than UA. It is annoying. Also, you come to not respect it. I try to follow the rules, but when they abuse it I find it hard to do so. The crew just does not want you up and around.

schnitzer

I've been on UA flights where the Crew tells the Captain to fake a seatbelt sign because of a disruptive passenger.

The Captain even fakes the turbulence.

You can still get out of your seat to use the bathroom. Nobody is going to stop you.

bmwe92fan

In the last month I've been on Asiana, ANA, Air China, Lufthansa, SAS, Emirates, Etihad, BA, Finn air, Croatian airlines, Cathay pacific, Singapore airlines, and Korean airlines - all of them turn off the seatbelt sign as soon as possible and keep it off - at the slightest sign of any turbulence UA flips it on - I just don't get it.....