wxguy

There's a great pmUA captain flying around, who during his pre-flight announcement says something along the lines of, "I'll make a deal with you: I'll try to keep the seatbelt sign off as much as possible. But when I have it on, it's on for a reason and please stay seated."

Like.

halls120

I've heard variations of this on several sUA flights, and these captains are indeed great.

NJFlyer42

If the sign is on for 8 hours, then biology controls when customers get up. When the sign is on for less than 30-45 minutes at a time the pilots contr when customers get up.

I guess it depends on how much control the pilots want.

freshairborne

Hey, I do that too. Can you tell the training center that I'm a great captain so that I don't have to do any more recurrent training...ever?

FAB

airplanegod

When people have to go, they have to go. I understand for a 2 hour flight but these reports i'm hearing of 8 hour plus flights is ridiculous. At some point, just get up. Not worth endangering your health, especially if there is smooth air for a prolonged period of time.

goalie

My two hockey pucks are if the seat belt sign has been on for an extended period of time and I "have to go", I will ask one of the f/a's if the Captain is planning to turn off the seat belt sign soon and wait a little while to see if that happens. If it does get turned off, great-but if it doesn't, I'll "go about my business" but on my way to the lav, I will tell the first f/a I see that "I know the seat belt sign is still on, but I really have to go "

freshairborne

There’s really no good all-encompassing answer to this age-old dilemma. When it’s on and it’s bumpy, the sign goes on. When we get a report of bumps ahead, or it looks like, based on an impending wind shift, bumpy-looking weather ahead, forecasts, or reports from controllers or airplanes ahead of us, we turn it on.

The seat belt sign is a kind of personal thing for us, and we’re all different. It’s actually something that the F/O normally won’t do until he or she has talked to the captain about first. Speaking for myself only, when I turn it on, it’s because I don’t want the passengers out of their seats, but I also am quite aware that sometimes, if you gotta go, you gotta go. I leave that up to them, and they do it at their own risk.

One of the problems with that is that the vast majority of the time when it’s on it just means that there’s the risk of hurting themselves if they’re up and we hit something that could make them fall, but often it’s not so bad that they won’t get away with it. That creates a mentality of not taking it seriously, and the more times they are up with no consequences while it’s on, the more they’re likely to make a habit of it.

The flight attendants are trained and experienced at being out of their seats during turbulence, but also, they’re the ones that are at a higher risk because of that. There is a risk/reward to it. Our flight operations manual is very specific as to when we should turn the sign on, and also when the F/As can be up. Often, they’re authorized to be up when the sign is on.

I see it as a psychological situation where we try to balance it’s use so that I have it on enough to have people seated, but not so much that they become desensitized to it.

I ride as a passenger plenty, on both sCO and sUA flights, and yes, there is a difference. I know there are a lot of folks on this forum that despise the sUA-sCO differentiation, but sCO pilots think differently than sUA pilots, and it’s a cultural difference, like so many other things, and there is no training that will make us all think the same on this particular subject.

My suggestion is that when the sign is on, strap in. In fact, strap in always. When we’re in the cockpit, we are strapped in, always, and if it’s other than cruise, we have all five points of our harness secured. It’s the law, yes, but I’d do it even if it weren’t. Better safe than sorry.

FAB

Miles Ahead

Just got off a 9 hour flight where the seat belt light was on gate to gate. At 2 hours or so, I followed Goalie's suggestion (not remembering at the time that it was Goalie's) and was told that it would be on for the whole flight. Something about "passenger management".

I'd be interested in FAB's view on this. Mine is that this is more dangerous - since people will need to be up because of biology, having the light all the time puts the decision on when it is safest in the hands of the passengers, not the pilot. I would rather it be in the hands of the pilot.

Loren Pechtel

"Passenger management"??

If there isn't an actual safety reason to keep it on then they are actually endangering passengers this way--I wonder what the FAA would think.

kenn0223

+1 - I think a lot of folks forget, you're risking not only your own safety but anyone you may fall on's into your hands when walking about the airplane. You've gotta hit something on your way down and there are decent odds it will be a fellow passenger

Kacee

Maybe they should just give the FAs tasers.

egentry

IMO in the front of the plane the light is a suggestion unless the Captain has instructed the FAs to sit down. In the back because of the number of passengers, their inexperience and herd mentality FAs have to keep a tighter grip on the reigns.

mjcewl1284

+1. This is pretty spot on.
Usually I always look for the FA to disable the restroom lock as kind of an indicator when I should go. Of course, if there's still bumpy air, I remain seated until it's smooth.
Normally if the drink carts are out and they have passed my aisle, I usually take that chance to use the restroom.
Haven't encountered any issues with this system, yet.

The most relaxed seat belt sign policy I have ever witnessed has been MH (when I was still flying MH). I recalled one flight where about 3-5 minutes after takeoff, the captain turned off the seatbelt sign. We were still in the initial climb too.

bldr1k

Why is it less dangerous for the flight attendants to be up then the passengers?

In most cases it isn't (and training isn't going to help if you hit violent turbulence without notice). They just don't want lots of people up at the same time if there is a chance of turbulence.

Baze

Wow, talk about an elitist post. If it is on sit down no matter where you sit in the plane. If it is on for a long time, ask the FA if ok to get up and go to the bathroom and hint that maybe they ask the flight deck if they forgot to turn it off. Seen plenty of "inexperienced" passengers in the front of the plane.