TakeTheATrain

I once was flying on IAH-NRT where the captain left the seatbelt sign on for nearly the entire flight. We only had some turbulence at the beginning but it was smooth for the rest of the flight.

weero

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While these may be trivial trueties they in no way explain why US carriers and recently even more so China carriers are so trigger happy with the sign.

There is a huge chasm in seatbelt sign use between the most timid Euro carrier captain the most audacious US one ... a phenomenon that cannot be explained away with personality and choices.

bmwe92fan

And this is why I started this thread - I fly so many carriers globally every month and the difference between UA and others is so obvious and I still haven't seen a single rational explanation - not one! People being sucked out of planes 25 years ago or simply saying they are no different than other U.S. or Chinese carriers isn't an answer - someone tell me why it has to be this way??!!

I think we can all agree based on multiple responses in this thread there is a real difference - someone tell me why....

weero

We I believe that the sudden change in how Chinese large carriers handle the sign is mandated from above. It is too sudden and pervasive for a cultural change.

I also believe that AA used to be a worse offender when it comes to the perma-seat-belt-sign but grew more reasonable and mature over the years whereas UA maintained the "i am not responsible" attitude.

Quite an irksome idiosyncrasy that could be fixed with very little expense.

N1120A

I was once on a flight from LAX to PHL on US, pre-9/11, where the flight was absolutely glass smooth, from take off to touch down, and they left the sign on the entire flight. The FA's even got annoyed.

Anyway, United Continental and American Airlines Group are about equally bad about the sign. I've noticed sCO pilots are a tiny bit worse about it, but not substantially. Anecdotally, my Channel 9 experience has led me to think that sUA pilots are much more active about asking about rides and ATC response directly correlates to how much they leave the sign off or on.

I've noticed that Chinese carriers do the following:

1) Keep the sign on the whole flight.

2) Don't actually mean that you have to stay seated, but instead use it to tell people to be buckled up while seated.

3) Cycle the sign and make an announcement when they actually mean it about staying seated.

4) Expect people to just sort of figure it out when it is safe to get up again.

10K?! I can't remember the last time, if ever, I had a US-based carrier turn the sign off at 10K. AC turns it off at 10K, as do plenty of other non-US carriers, but I've never, ever seen the sign off at 10K. The earliest I've seen it is at about 25-27K on the way to the low 30s.

They got it after they got the CO-induced reconfiguration. Brutally annoying.

andyh64000

This is one reason I am sad about the demise of channel 9...you could get an idea of when to expect the seatbelt sign to be turned off.

seat38a

Flying on United, I've noticed that the pilots don't shut the seatbelt sign off until the aircraft reaches cruising altitude vs other airlines that shut them off around 10,000. What is the reasoning for this at United?

The annoying part about it is you have to hear the "seat belt sign is still on" speech when you get up to go the the bathroom. The FA's say they have to say it, and wink wink we all ignore it. Getting to cruising alt takes a while and I've had to say screw it and just go.

I've noticed this on all 8 segments so far this year.

Sorry guys, ignore. I posted in the wrong place and it got moved here.

YadiMolina

On a flight yesterday the FA gave the usual stern explanation of the seat belt policy after takeoff. After cruising altitude, the pilot announced he was turning off the seat belt light, and the light went off.

A few minutes later, the FA again repeated the instructions that the seat belt light was on, please stay seated. I thought I missed something, and looked up to observe that indeed the light was still off. I guess they are so accustomed to say that, it just comes out automatically. His colleagues didn't notice. And, in a testimony to the uselessness of the announcement, no passengers seemed to notice his error.

LordHamster

Not trying to excuse this behavior as I wasn't there to judge, but I don't know if that qualifies as DYKWIA. Frankly, United has a problem with pilots (male and female) who seem incapable of ever turning off the seatbelt sign. I have been on several 13+ hour United flights over the years, where the seatbelt sign NEVER ONCE turned off. As a result, I'm sure that during endless circling trying to decide a diversion... some people just plain had to go.

ExplorerWannabe

After over 40 years of flying, I've been on a few where it seemed the seat belt never went off but I find it's far Far FAR more common that passengers just decide for themselves that they can ignore the instructions and seat belt light, especially after touch down while the plane is still taxiing. I dispute the idea that United has a problem with pilots who seem incapable of turning off the seatbelt sign; what the US has are customers who seem incapable of following reasonable instructions when it's the least inconvenient for them personally.

I really empathize with the cabin crew trying to get people to not only stay in their seats but keep those belts on. When I've had bladder pressures toward the end of flight, I've generally flagged down an FA and explained that I REALLY needed to use a lavatory as soon as it was safe -- think I've only been denied once and I understood why in that case (very rough conditions all the way through approach).

beachmouse

The first aborted landing/go round in this case should have been a clue to the clueless and impatient that it's a bad idea to get up and futz with a bag in the overhead bin at that time.

lincolnjkc

I think there's a bit of both (and a bit of a chicken-or-egg going on as a result).

I recently had a half dozen segments between OZ and OM and in both the seatbelt sign was off at 10,000 feet and generally remained off unless it was getting really shaky -- and as soon as things cleared up it was back off pretty quickly. Without exception, when the sign was on passengers got down and stayed down. I would think, at least, that they believe the sign is an accurate indicator of their relative safety.

On UA on the other hand the sign is default on and only seems to be turned off if someone happens to remember -- and then more than three bumps in a row and it's back on. The result is people view it more of a "caution: hot surface" sign or an overly sensitive smoke detector -- something there to mitigate the airline's liability if someone gets up and gets injured while the sign is on, but not a great indicator of the relative danger. I was on a ORD-PEK last month where I swear the sign was on from takeoff to touchdown -- finally my bladder couldn't take it.

Personally, I generally am in my seat and belted for the entirety of the flight but sometimes, especially on a TPAC when you gotta go... If I'm on UA and the sign is on but the ride has been clear for 10+ minutes without any kind of PA from the flight deck I will seriously consider taking my chances.

On the other hand if there's a "Flight Attendants - Take Your Jumpseats" or worse "Flight Attendants Get Down Stay Down" PA from the flight deck I'm pulling the belt a little tighter and my bladder be darned....

drowelf

I've been guilty at times of being a gate loose. Its generally based on 3 factors, plane type, my seat location and plane load. I don't have any fear that my carry ons won't precisely over my seat, but I would like them to be in the overhead, at least a couple of rows near my seat. I tend to have 2 carry ons which are more of the personal size and much smaller than rollers. Neither one will fit under an economy aisle seat on most of UA planes.

That's generally my criteria when the seat belt light never seems to go off, but add in the additional factor of if the FAs are up and about doing their business in the cabin.

pseudoswede

Mrs. Swede freaks out that the slightest bit of turbulence. I tell her that I'm not worried unless the FAs are worried. I've been fortunate to have not seen an FA worried.

StuckinITH

Those are my wife's criteria as well and she adds to that if she sees some fellow passengers rushing to the toilet. But, invariably, the FAs decide that she's a good candidate to be told in a loud voice to return to her seat. Happens on international long hauls when we are in Polaris Business and on domestic flights.