UA Will Never be a World-Class Airline Until They Get Rid of CRJs on Major Routes.
May 27, 2015, 12:40 pm
#61
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That logic makes no sense - reverse it, DL can also offer direct flights from ATL to destinations beyond DEN (and they clearly do).
May 27, 2015, 12:45 pm
#62
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Actually, DL would send much of its connecting traffic from DEN to SLC, not ATL. TPAC would be routed through SEA, and much of the remaining international connecting traffic route through DTW, MSP, or JFK.
May 27, 2015, 12:56 pm
#63
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I go straight to delta.com, I book my flight, usually on a 757, (but that is gone now for my ORD route)....
In checking ua recently, it does seem like they are getting more mainline on ORD-MSP,SLC and ATL....
It's still not enough to go back to UA on route to DL hubs..
May 27, 2015, 1:21 pm
#64
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My issue with UA is it seems like a lot of employees still think Continental is still around. No thanks, i'll fly the new AA, DL, B6, WN, AS etc where those employees know that there is only one airline. I kind of blame UA management for this though for creating a "merger of equals" where they preserved multiple aspects of both PMUA and PMCO instead of creating a unified brand employees from both airlines can get behind.
May 27, 2015, 2:10 pm
#65
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Exactly!!! Again, I haven't flown UA into ATL, MSP or DTW in years from ORD. I have no reason to even check UA.com..
I go straight to delta.com, I book my flight, usually on a 757, (but that is gone now for my ORD route)....
In checking ua recently, it does seem like they are getting more mainline on ORD-MSP,SLC and ATL....
It's still not enough to go back to UA on route to DL hubs..
I go straight to delta.com, I book my flight, usually on a 757, (but that is gone now for my ORD route)....
In checking ua recently, it does seem like they are getting more mainline on ORD-MSP,SLC and ATL....
It's still not enough to go back to UA on route to DL hubs..
Unless, of course, you are completely beholden to a single airline.
Always start with google flights, hipmunk, kayak, or whatever tool you prefer. Even if you end up clicking through to DL.com to buy, at least you'll see other options / routing / pricing before you buy.
May 27, 2015, 2:33 pm
#66
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Well DL can offer direct flights to the destinations beyond DEN as well. Your explanation (on this route) makes no sense.
While there are some head to head comparisons (IAH-ATL, EWR-ATL) with a similar level of market penetration, this one is caused by three factors. First, United has chased away much of the O/D market share at DEN to OALs (it currently only has a 40% market share, SWA is 25%), as a result they just have fewer passengers who fly them ex-DEN than DL has ex-ATL. Second, the "connecting traffic" that is pulled through the hub at ATL is much greater than what UAL can pull through DEN, hence more passengers on the connecting ATL-DEN and DEN-ATL flights on DAL. Third, more of the regional traffic on UAL gets pulled into other hubs (ORD, IAH) on UAL than into competing hubs of DLs (MSP, SLC).
Part of this is natural (as to DEN) and part of it is self inflicted, with the loss of passengers then causing downgrades to RJ, which chases away more passengers. At some point it comes unsustainable (see CLE) as there is too little high yield traffic on the RJs as it has booked away.
While there are some head to head comparisons (IAH-ATL, EWR-ATL) with a similar level of market penetration, this one is caused by three factors. First, United has chased away much of the O/D market share at DEN to OALs (it currently only has a 40% market share, SWA is 25%), as a result they just have fewer passengers who fly them ex-DEN than DL has ex-ATL. Second, the "connecting traffic" that is pulled through the hub at ATL is much greater than what UAL can pull through DEN, hence more passengers on the connecting ATL-DEN and DEN-ATL flights on DAL. Third, more of the regional traffic on UAL gets pulled into other hubs (ORD, IAH) on UAL than into competing hubs of DLs (MSP, SLC).
Part of this is natural (as to DEN) and part of it is self inflicted, with the loss of passengers then causing downgrades to RJ, which chases away more passengers. At some point it comes unsustainable (see CLE) as there is too little high yield traffic on the RJs as it has booked away.
May 27, 2015, 2:37 pm
#67
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You will find no low hour 777 Captains that is for sure! That is who I trust my life to and believe me the Captain of my flight from Den probably had 20% of the hours that the average 777 Captain has.
May 27, 2015, 2:48 pm
#68
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You are confusing someone in the Right or First Officer seat with the Captain.
You will find no low hour 777 Captains that is for sure! That is who I trust my life to and believe me the Captain of my flight from Den probably had 20% of the hours that the average 777 Captain has.
You will find no low hour 777 Captains that is for sure! That is who I trust my life to and believe me the Captain of my flight from Den probably had 20% of the hours that the average 777 Captain has.
May 27, 2015, 2:50 pm
#69
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May 27, 2015, 3:52 pm
#70
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There are good reasons that DL can (and does) compete into UA hubs, while UA essentially cedes the DL hubs. UA has a very difficult time competing straight up.
May 27, 2015, 4:36 pm
#72
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May 27, 2015, 4:44 pm
#73
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I was being a little facetious. If shareholders actually flew the airline they would never put up with things. But because it is institutionally owned they don't care, as long as the profits are there in shareholder value.
May 27, 2015, 4:48 pm
#74
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I think my earlier point is still valid, which is that ATL is a GIANT hub (almost 1,000 flights daily). DEN is maybe 1/3 of that. Why would there be any expectation that DEN-ATL on UA would be anywhere close to the same capacity that DL offers, given how much larger ATL is of a hub for DL, relative to DEN for UA.
It's hard to make an apples to apples comparison. If I look at DL flights to MSP-IAH (basically, from one of Delta's smaller hubs to one of UA's largest), they fly 6x RJs there (CRJ-900s). So on that basis, one could say that maybe UA could throw on a couple more flights to ATL, but given relative size, I find it hard to argue that UA should put more than 1 or 2 more flights on the route (granted, this is not really an economic analysis of the situation, but just proportional sizing given ATL is still nearly 2x the size of UA"s IAH hub).
It's hard to make an apples to apples comparison. If I look at DL flights to MSP-IAH (basically, from one of Delta's smaller hubs to one of UA's largest), they fly 6x RJs there (CRJ-900s). So on that basis, one could say that maybe UA could throw on a couple more flights to ATL, but given relative size, I find it hard to argue that UA should put more than 1 or 2 more flights on the route (granted, this is not really an economic analysis of the situation, but just proportional sizing given ATL is still nearly 2x the size of UA"s IAH hub).
May 27, 2015, 5:56 pm
#75
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IMO the heavy use of CRJ and ERJ aircraft is the number one reason for scoring low on customer satisfaction polls. Virtually every customer that sets foot on these flying sardine cans is dismayed. Doesn't matter if the service is great and the flights are on time. Until this changes, United will be bottom of the barrel.