Jan 4, 2015, 12:30 pm

FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides

Due to winter (most common Dec/Jan) weather/jetstream conditions for northern TATL flights, the 757-200's UA uses for the thin european routes need to make fuel stop / diversions. Typically at Bangor (BGR) / Goose Bay(YYR) / Gander (YQX) /St. John's (YYT), ....
The most commonly affected European routes are Barcelona (BCN), Berlin (TXL), Hamburg (HAM), Madrid (MAD), Oslo (OSL), Stockholm (ARN)

Interesting maps
Weather Model - North Atlantic Jet Stream Wind
North Atlantic Jet Stream Forecasts

Related / previous threads
Why does United put 757s on certain flights from EWR to europe

[757-200 diversions] CO starting hubs at Gander, Goose Bay, etc. [threads merged] pmCO

UA69 (ARN-EWR): Wrong plane, wrong fuel calculations, or bad weather?

2013 Westbound TATL 757 "Short Stops"

Consolidated "United 757 TATL Fuel Stop" Thread [Merged] 2012

North TATL 757 fuel stops / diversion delays [2015]

Reply Subscribe

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

Jan 9, 2015, 12:32 pm

#106

OrlandoFlyer

Join Date: Apr 2003

Location: Orlando

Programs: DL 4MM/PM, UA 1MM/Gold, AA Paper

Posts: 1,386

More 757 diversons today

Eight TATL 757s to EWR stopping for gas at Gander, Goose Bay and Bangor today. BCN, MAN, AMS, ARN, LIS, MAD, EDI and BHX. One TATL 757 to IAD stopping for gas at Goose Bay from LHR. DUB to EWR 757 flight status showing as overflying Bangor. Going to keep off these 757s at this time of the year.

Jan 9, 2015, 12:34 pm

#107

flyinbob

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Aug 2003

Location: SNA

Programs: UA Million Mile Nobody, Marriott Platinum Elite, SPG Gold

Posts: 25,228

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironmanjt

Holy bad winds today - looks like almost EVERY westbound transatlantic made a fuel stop today, including LHR-IAD and LHR-EWR! Only SNN-EWR was planned nonstop along with 115 LHR-EWR. The other 757 LHR-EWR canceled

edit: DUB-EWR overflew a planned BGR stop, looks like they had enough fuel after all

I hope you mean only the 757s, and not the 767s or 777s. No reason they should need refueling on a trans-Atlantic.

Jan 9, 2015, 12:48 pm

#108

UA-NYC

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: LGA/JFK/EWR

Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC

Posts: 21,169

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrlandoFlyer

They should really invest in some full-time (or at least seasonal) employees at these new mini-hubs

Jan 9, 2015, 1:15 pm

#109

wto605

Join Date: Aug 2013

Posts: 498

Quote:

Originally Posted by UA-NYC

They should really invest in some full-time (or at least seasonal) employees at these new mini-hubs

I would rather see them invest in areal refueling. I know the C-32 (US Military spec 752, notably the C-32A VIP Transport commonly used by Secretary of State and/or as Airforce 2 INTL trips) has receiving capability, if only UA had converted the pmCO 762s into a civilian version of KC-767.

*Granted the C-32A also has a slight (1k lbs) MTOW bump and a ton of extra fuel capacity (for a 38% increase in loaded range over the winglet-ed civilian 752) via cells in both holds. It would probably be easier to just put the extra ~15,000 lbs of fuel capacity on board than invest in a tanker fleet, but only one of the options allows us to hear "if you look out the left side you can see the tanker we just refueled from turning around"

Jan 10, 2015, 5:52 am

#110

Owenc

Join Date: Mar 2014

Location: Northern Ireland

Posts: 722

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironmanjt

edit: DUB-EWR overflew a planned BGR stop, looks like they had enough fuel after all

oh my god it took 9 hours from Dublin! Holy crap that is ridiculous for the distance!

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrlandoFlyer

I disagree. This is definitely not normal, its not normal at all for a flight from Ireland to take 9 hours to get to the NE of the USA. This is crazy sorry, not normal AT ALL.

Last edited by FlyinHawaiian; Jan 18, 2015 at 9:47 am Reason: multi-quote

Jan 10, 2015, 6:16 am

#111

SunLover

Join Date: Apr 2003

Programs: UA *G 1MM LT United Club & Global Entry

Posts: 2,756

Quote:

Originally Posted by wto605

Don't give Jeff any ideas; or pretty soon we will see the introduction of TATL RJ's...

SunLover

Jan 11, 2015, 1:40 am

#112

okrogius

Join Date: Apr 2007

Posts: 774

Quote:

Originally Posted by yytleisure

YQX isn't northern Canada! At 48-49N it's further south than the U.S./Can border out west. YYR at 53N is more northerly but in a country that extends to 80N that's positively tropical

eastern Canada would be a better description. Sorry to knit pick, just a sensitive Newfoundlander here who tries to spread the word about our beautiful little rock in the ocean. Most North American maps do use a projection that shows us near Greenland but I live farther south than Seattle. Minor geography lesson for today. Now back to your regular program...

This is a nit, but YVR is 49N, not 53. So you're looking at about the same latitude. (Although eastern is indeed a better description than northern)

Jan 11, 2015, 9:24 am

#113

respectable_man

Join Date: May 2003

Programs: UA Silver

Posts: 1,931

Quote:

Originally Posted by yytleisure

Most North American maps do use a projection that shows us near Greenland but I live farther south than Seattle. Minor geography lesson for today. Now back to your regular program...

You need to tell that to CBC my friend (enlist Rex Murphy in the process). Their official guidebook describes southern Ontario (i.e. Toronto) as "Central Canada".

Jan 11, 2015, 12:08 pm

#114

PV_Premier

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Jan 2012

Location: Northern Calif./Eastern Ida.

Programs: Amethyst Premier Plutonium Medallion

Posts: 20,642

Quote:

Originally Posted by rankourabu

Most pax are probably happy the plane didnt run out of fuel.....

And what compensation would apply to these long (type 3) flights, where in most cases its a 0.5-1.5 hour "delay". Has anything ever been delayed over 4 hours?

yes. at times these flights have timed out at the refueling point, necessitating UA to ferry a crew up to finish the flight. typically happens on the longer routes or where there are cargo/MX/CS delays prior to the departure then a refueling stop.

i believe this happened with OSL-EWR a couple of weeks ago, i remember it mentioned in this thread or the INTL cancel/delays thread.

Jan 11, 2015, 1:03 pm

#115

OrlandoFlyer

Join Date: Apr 2003

Location: Orlando

Programs: DL 4MM/PM, UA 1MM/Gold, AA Paper

Posts: 1,386

Only two refueling stops today - TXL and BCN.

Jan 11, 2015, 2:25 pm

#116

WineCountryUA

Moderator: United Airlines

Join Date: Jun 2007

Location: SFO

Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat

Posts: 66,854

As there is a separate EU261 thread, have moved the discussion of what conditions merits a EU261 claim to http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...st-united.html.

WineCountryUA
UA coModerator

Jan 11, 2015, 2:34 pm

#117

Germanfflyer

Original Member

Join Date: May 1998

Location: a proud member of FT since 05-05-1998

Programs: DL, AF and KL - UA - *G

Posts: 2,239

OK - but people should know they are eligible for EU261 when they have a fuel stop on these flights that are the topic of this thread - if they are delayed for 3+ hours to their final destination including connecting flights!

Jan 11, 2015, 3:33 pm

#118

UA-NYC

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: LGA/JFK/EWR

Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC

Posts: 21,169

Quote:

Originally Posted by Germanfflyer

It's too bad that I bet maybe ~5% of pax on these flights, max, will be aware of this and know what to do

Jan 11, 2015, 5:44 pm

#119

PV_Premier

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Jan 2012

Location: Northern Calif./Eastern Ida.

Programs: Amethyst Premier Plutonium Medallion

Posts: 20,642

Quote:

Originally Posted by UA-NYC

It's too bad that I bet maybe ~5% of pax on these flights, max, will be aware of this and know what to do

Bad for pax, but good for UA or they'd be bankrupt by now between diversions delays and cancelations

Jan 21, 2015, 12:55 pm

#120

doomhunk

Join Date: Dec 2013

Posts: 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwe92fan

OK - so as a regular traveler on many of these routes for the past three years I believe I can safely say that the past few months have seen unusually strong headwinds. I fly from MAN / BCN / TXL monthly back to the states and I have never seen it this bad. I don't think it's UA to be honest - and I do think that the 757 is the right plane for secondary cities in western europe to the US (flame suit on).... It's just been a tough year weather wise for flights back to the US - and I have started booking away from the 757 routes to 767/777 for this winter (typically adding an intra EU connection via LHR/FRA/MUC) - but I wouldn't call it a UA issue.... The demand just isn't there in winter for a widebody to cities like BCN or MAN or TXL - and typically a 757 can make it - but it's been a tough weather year so far....

I was on 125 on January 4, diverted into Bangor. It was horrendous. I arrived in Las Vegas 24 hours late due to missing my initial connection and my later re-booking getting cancelled.

Regarding your comment about lack of demand, I'd be interested to hear how you think this sits with the offer I received of a $200 travel voucher in return for giving up my seat because the flight was overbooked.

The first week of January always has higher demand because of people returning home after visiting Europe for Christmas and specifically for visitors to the Consumer Electronics Show.