Jan 4, 2015, 12:30 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Due to winter (most common Dec/Jan) weather/jetstream conditions for northern TATL flights, the 757-200's UA uses for the thin european routes need to make fuel stop / diversions. Typically at Bangor (BGR) / Goose Bay(YYR) / Gander (YQX) /St. John's (YYT), ....
The most commonly affected European routes are Barcelona (BCN), Berlin (TXL), Hamburg (HAM), Madrid (MAD), Oslo (OSL), Stockholm (ARN)
Interesting maps
Weather Model - North Atlantic Jet Stream Wind
North Atlantic Jet Stream Forecasts
Related / previous threads
Why does United put 757s on certain flights from EWR to europe
[757-200 diversions] CO starting hubs at Gander, Goose Bay, etc. [threads merged] pmCO
UA69 (ARN-EWR): Wrong plane, wrong fuel calculations, or bad weather?
2013 Westbound TATL 757 "Short Stops"
Consolidated "United 757 TATL Fuel Stop" Thread [Merged] 2012
The most commonly affected European routes are Barcelona (BCN), Berlin (TXL), Hamburg (HAM), Madrid (MAD), Oslo (OSL), Stockholm (ARN)
Interesting maps
Weather Model - North Atlantic Jet Stream Wind
North Atlantic Jet Stream Forecasts
Related / previous threads
Why does United put 757s on certain flights from EWR to europe
[757-200 diversions] CO starting hubs at Gander, Goose Bay, etc. [threads merged] pmCO
UA69 (ARN-EWR): Wrong plane, wrong fuel calculations, or bad weather?
2013 Westbound TATL 757 "Short Stops"
Consolidated "United 757 TATL Fuel Stop" Thread [Merged] 2012
North TATL 757 fuel stops / diversion delays [2015]
Jan 6, 2015, 7:05 pm
#94
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 722
In the summer there is almost no headwind and the day and night flighttimes are identical. It took me 6 hours to get there this summer and 6 hours back.
Speed reached 550 over ocean aswell.
Speed reached 550 over ocean aswell.
Last edited by Owenc; Jan 6, 2015 at 7:10 pm
Jan 6, 2015, 7:13 pm
#95
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 638
I wouldn't be surprised if UA made a bigger profit on the 757s than DL on the 767s. Sure, the widebodies carry more passengers, but they're also more expensive to operate (more fuel, more crew).
Besides, I'd rather take a chance on a 1-hr delay than a guaranteed 1-hr of extra time connecting through some EU hub.
Besides, I'd rather take a chance on a 1-hr delay than a guaranteed 1-hr of extra time connecting through some EU hub.
Jan 6, 2015, 7:17 pm
#96
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 722
I wouldn't be surprised if UA made a bigger profit on the 757s than DL on the 767s. Sure, the widebodies carry more passengers, but they're also more expensive to operate (more fuel, more crew).
Besides, I'd rather take a chance on a 1-hr delay than a guaranteed 1-hr of extra time connecting through some EU hub.
Besides, I'd rather take a chance on a 1-hr delay than a guaranteed 1-hr of extra time connecting through some EU hub.
Last edited by Owenc; Jan 6, 2015 at 7:27 pm
Jan 6, 2015, 7:42 pm
#97
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,092
I was on AA121 the other day when it made a few stop. Honestly, it wasn't as bad as was expected. That said, my big complaints were the following (I'd guess a lot of these complaints apply to UA too):
1) Little-no communication. No email from AA about delayed arrival, CDG agents knew basically no more than AA.com. AA.com was on the fritz and seemed to think it would be a 3.5 hr delay (which it wasn't)
2) No additional food. We were 1hr20 delayed and it wasn't a big deal, but they barely feed you enough for 8.5 hrs, nevertheless 10. They could've at least given everyone a 10EUR voucher to buy an extra snack in the airport
3) This is a known issue. It would not kill them to put a bit of a notification on the website when you buy. Maybe something to the tune of "at times, this flight will have to make a brief fuel stop in North America."
Honestly, as I said, it wasn't that big a deal. But it was enough of a nuisance that I would probably fly DL/AF on my next flight back from CDG rather than have to deal with it again.
1) Little-no communication. No email from AA about delayed arrival, CDG agents knew basically no more than AA.com. AA.com was on the fritz and seemed to think it would be a 3.5 hr delay (which it wasn't)
2) No additional food. We were 1hr20 delayed and it wasn't a big deal, but they barely feed you enough for 8.5 hrs, nevertheless 10. They could've at least given everyone a 10EUR voucher to buy an extra snack in the airport
3) This is a known issue. It would not kill them to put a bit of a notification on the website when you buy. Maybe something to the tune of "at times, this flight will have to make a brief fuel stop in North America."
Honestly, as I said, it wasn't that big a deal. But it was enough of a nuisance that I would probably fly DL/AF on my next flight back from CDG rather than have to deal with it again.
Jan 6, 2015, 7:58 pm
#98
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: if it's Thursday, this must be Belgium
Programs: UA 1K MM
Posts: 6,484
They don't put it on the flight reliability stats or notify passengers in advance because this counts as a weather issue.
And it is to an extent -- but...
In fact, as we all know, the deeper cause is an operational/management decision to operate a route using equipment that has range for *most*, but not *all* of the typical operating conditions during a year. Just like JetBlue and their A320s.
Not criticizing their choice, but that is the explanation for it.
There are many sins that "weather" covers. Just like the root cause of airport capacity or hub airline flight prioritization causes huge delays, but can be covered by the excuse of "weather" as well.
And it is to an extent -- but...
In fact, as we all know, the deeper cause is an operational/management decision to operate a route using equipment that has range for *most*, but not *all* of the typical operating conditions during a year. Just like JetBlue and their A320s.
Not criticizing their choice, but that is the explanation for it.
There are many sins that "weather" covers. Just like the root cause of airport capacity or hub airline flight prioritization causes huge delays, but can be covered by the excuse of "weather" as well.
Jan 7, 2015, 6:17 am
#99
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 722
I was on AA121 the other day when it made a few stop. Honestly, it wasn't as bad as was expected. That said, my big complaints were the following (I'd guess a lot of these complaints apply to UA too):
1) Little-no communication. No email from AA about delayed arrival, CDG agents knew basically no more than AA.com. AA.com was on the fritz and seemed to think it would be a 3.5 hr delay (which it wasn't)
2) No additional food. We were 1hr20 delayed and it wasn't a big deal, but they barely feed you enough for 8.5 hrs, nevertheless 10. They could've at least given everyone a 10EUR voucher to buy an extra snack in the airport
3) This is a known issue. It would not kill them to put a bit of a notification on the website when you buy. Maybe something to the tune of "at times, this flight will have to make a brief fuel stop in North America."
Honestly, as I said, it wasn't that big a deal. But it was enough of a nuisance that I would probably fly DL/AF on my next flight back from CDG rather than have to deal with it again.
1) Little-no communication. No email from AA about delayed arrival, CDG agents knew basically no more than AA.com. AA.com was on the fritz and seemed to think it would be a 3.5 hr delay (which it wasn't)
2) No additional food. We were 1hr20 delayed and it wasn't a big deal, but they barely feed you enough for 8.5 hrs, nevertheless 10. They could've at least given everyone a 10EUR voucher to buy an extra snack in the airport
3) This is a known issue. It would not kill them to put a bit of a notification on the website when you buy. Maybe something to the tune of "at times, this flight will have to make a brief fuel stop in North America."
Honestly, as I said, it wasn't that big a deal. But it was enough of a nuisance that I would probably fly DL/AF on my next flight back from CDG rather than have to deal with it again.
Jan 9, 2015, 2:13 am
#100
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Wesseling, NRW, Germany
Programs: UA *S , MR LT Titanium, HH Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,940
Another D-Day over the atlantic today with UA63 (MAD-EWR), UA69 (ARN-EWR) and UA121 (BCN-EWR) visiting northern Canada for fuel...UA125 (the flight I am monitoring before taking this in February) is not operating today as a few other 757-flights.
To be honest though the winds in Europe are predicted to be very high today and over the weekend, though, so this may in fact be a uncommon weather situation even for this time of the year.
Greetings - Dirk
To be honest though the winds in Europe are predicted to be very high today and over the weekend, though, so this may in fact be a uncommon weather situation even for this time of the year.
Greetings - Dirk
Jan 9, 2015, 6:42 am
#102
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Wesseling, NRW, Germany
Programs: UA *S , MR LT Titanium, HH Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,940
Greetings - Dirk
Jan 9, 2015, 8:34 am
#103
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: UA *G 1MM LT United Club & Global Entry
Posts: 2,756
Jet stream wind speeds at altitude are different than the wind speeds reported at ground level.
Here is a report that shows eastbound TATL travel can also be an adventure: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/tr...ds-745mph.html
SunLover
Here is a report that shows eastbound TATL travel can also be an adventure: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/tr...ds-745mph.html
SunLover
Jan 9, 2015, 9:07 am
#104
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: YYT
Programs: AC P25
Posts: 269
Another D-Day over the atlantic today with UA63 (MAD-EWR), UA69 (ARN-EWR) and UA121 (BCN-EWR) visiting northern Canada for fuel...UA125 (the flight I am monitoring before taking this in February) is not operating today as a few other 757-flights.
To be honest though the winds in Europe are predicted to be very high today and over the weekend, though, so this may in fact be a uncommon weather situation even for this time of the year.
Greetings - Dirk
To be honest though the winds in Europe are predicted to be very high today and over the weekend, though, so this may in fact be a uncommon weather situation even for this time of the year.
Greetings - Dirk
eastern Canada would be a better description. Sorry to knit pick, just a sensitive Newfoundlander here who tries to spread the word about our beautiful little rock in the ocean. Most North American maps do use a projection that shows us near Greenland but I live farther south than Seattle. Minor geography lesson for today. Now back to your regular program...
Jan 9, 2015, 12:19 pm
#105
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Programs: UA GS, AS MVP 100K, DL Diamond, Marriot Lifetime Titanium, AmEx Centurion
Posts: 5,528
Holy bad winds today - looks like almost EVERY westbound transatlantic made a fuel stop today, including LHR-IAD and LHR-EWR! Only SNN-EWR was planned nonstop along with 115 LHR-EWR. The other 757 LHR-EWR canceled 
edit: DUB-EWR overflew a planned BGR stop, looks like they had enough fuel after all
edit: DUB-EWR overflew a planned BGR stop, looks like they had enough fuel after all