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North TATL 757 fuel stops / diversion delays [2015]

North TATL 757 fuel stops / diversion delays [2015]

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Old Jul 15, 17, 1:19 pm   -   Wikipost
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Due to winter (most common Dec/Jan) weather/jetstream conditions for northern TATL flights, the 757-200's UA uses for the thin european routes need to make fuel stop / diversions. Typically at Bangor (BGR) / Goose Bay(YYR) / Gander (YQX) /St. John's (YYT), ....
The most commonly affected European routes are Barcelona (BCN), Berlin (TXL), Hamburg (HAM), Madrid (MAD), Oslo (OSL), Stockholm (ARN)

Interesting maps
Weather Model - North Atlantic Jet Stream Wind
North Atlantic Jet Stream Forecasts

Related / previous threads
Why does United put 757s on certain flights from EWR to europe

[757-200 diversions] CO starting hubs at Gander, Goose Bay, etc. [threads merged] pmCO

UA69 (ARN-EWR): Wrong plane, wrong fuel calculations, or bad weather?

2013 Westbound TATL 757 "Short Stops"

Consolidated "United 757 TATL Fuel Stop" Thread [Merged] 2012
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Old Jan 3, 15, 3:35 pm
  #1  
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North TATL 757 fuel stops / diversion delays [2015]

Originally Posted by 1K-SFO View Post
1/2 HNL-EWR UA/14 cancelled -- but listed as "weather" (in HNL?) (yes, technically not international, but longhaul on a longhaul aircraft)
1/3 LHR-EWR UA/16 late 2:02 -- operations
1/3 CDG-EWR UA/55 diverted BGR
1/3 MAD-EWR UA/63 late 1:29 -- ATC
1/3 HAM-EWR UA/75 diverted BGR
1/3 BCN-EWR UA/121 diverted BGR
1/3 TXL-EWR UA/125 diverted YYR (landed YYR 11:44, took off 12:34 -- impressively quick, but still unfortunate that these fuel stops have to be made at all)
Wouldn't the fuel stops in Canada be very costly to UA? Or is flying a 757 still cheaper than a 767?
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Old Jan 3, 15, 4:16 pm
  #2  
 
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Originally Posted by fivesixseven View Post
Wouldn't the fuel stops in Canada be very costly to UA? Or is flying a 757 still cheaper than a 767?
The fuel stops have a small time and fuel cost (and add a pressurization cycle to the plane). Since it costs fuel to carry fuel, they'll put enough in the tanks to make it to Canada (rather than say, "30 minutes short of Chicago").

These fuel stops are planned before they take off in Europe, so this isn't a safety issue ("oh, we're out of gas, better land" is not being discussed in the cockpit).

Putting a 767 on a route has a few issues:
  • PMCO didn't have enough widebodies to go around, so they put their 752's to work flying across the pond. Absent buying new planes to avoid fuel stops (and note, this is mostly only necessary during the winter), the 752 might be the only plane available to operate that flight (while maintaining the rest of their schedule).
  • A 767 might be too much plane for some of these routes. Putting a 767 on Newark-Hamburg is great, but would require UA sell more seats more cheaply to cover their costs (the 767 is a bigger, heavier plane).
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Old Jan 3, 15, 4:21 pm
  #3  
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Originally Posted by FlyerChrisK View Post
The fuel stops have a small time and fuel cost (and add a pressurization cycle to the plane). Since it costs fuel to carry fuel, they'll put enough in the tanks to make it to Canada (rather than say, "30 minutes short of Chicago").

These fuel stops are planned before they take off in Europe, so this isn't a safety issue ("oh, we're out of gas, better land" is not being discussed in the cockpit).

Putting a 767 on a route has a few issues:
  • PMCO didn't have enough widebodies to go around, so they put their 752's to work flying across the pond. Absent buying new planes to avoid fuel stops (and note, this is mostly only necessary during the winter), the 752 might be the only plane available to operate that flight (while maintaining the rest of their schedule).
  • A 767 might be too much plane for some of these routes. Putting a 767 on Newark-Hamburg is great, but would require UA sell more seats more cheaply to cover their costs (the 767 is a bigger, heavier plane).
HAM maybe not, but i.e. AMS or perhaps TXL mustn't be that big of a problem for the 2 class version of the 767. After all, isn't that just a matter of marketing your product better (or offering a better - more competitive (inflight) - product)?
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Old Jan 4, 15, 3:44 am
  #4  
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North TATL 757 fuel stops / diversion delays [2015]

1/4: another day with fuel stops at Gander and Goose Bay for the 752s after crossing the Atlantic.
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Old Jan 4, 15, 7:28 am
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Another full day of fuel diversions, at least OSL, ARN, TXL, and BCN.
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Old Jan 4, 15, 8:46 am
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Today could be a record for 757 fuel stops. Looks like so far: 123 (London), 69 (Stockholm), 75 (Hamburg), 125 (Berlin), 121 (Barcelona), 39 (Oslo), and 55 (Paris).

Also stopping for fuel 4695 (St Johns-Newark) and 6276 (Chicago-Monterrey Mexico).
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Old Jan 4, 15, 9:47 am
  #7  
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Originally Posted by Hammer0425 View Post
Today could be a record for 757 fuel stops. Looks like so far: 123 (London), 69 (Stockholm), 75 (Hamburg), 125 (Berlin), 121 (Barcelona), 39 (Oslo), and 55 (Paris).
At this point, UA should just open the Bangor mini-hub and have staff on the ground to deal with this crap.
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Old Jan 4, 15, 9:58 am
  #8  
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Originally Posted by UA-NYC View Post
At this point, UA should just open the Bangor mini-hub and have staff on the ground to deal with this crap.
Perhaps AA can chip in. Check AA121 last couple days.
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Old Jan 4, 15, 4:38 pm
  #9  
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CO was a pioneer in using the 757 as TATL transportation. While I detest single-aisle long-hauls (when I'm unfortunate enough to be in coach) I'm thankful for the venerable 757 because of its routes to secondary Europe cities. And BF (when I get it) is as good as any in the fleet, in my opinion.

RNE, missing EWR-CGN-EWR.
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Old Jan 4, 15, 4:56 pm
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Originally Posted by rankourabu View Post
Perhaps AA can chip in. Check AA121 last couple days.
Not for fuel
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Old Jan 4, 15, 5:18 pm
  #11  
 
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Cdg 510p 2a a47
jfk 8 41 815p
4cdg/out1712 off1726 *1026
1jfk/intmd lndg at bgr pre1930rmks tech stop due to winds
ftwdp copeland *0700
2jfk/eta2204 *1733
3yqx/etd2000 *0740
1bgr/ovr bgr to jfk pre1930 rmks opnl
ftwdp copeland *0746
2yqx/in1850 *1623
4yqx/out1957 off2003 *1733
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Old Jan 4, 15, 5:23 pm
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Could someone tell me why on earth the Belfast flight diverted. Aren't we well within the range not to ever divert??


https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flig...110Z/EGAA/KALB

And surely 8 hours is a bit excessive for 3000 miles?
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Old Jan 4, 15, 5:25 pm
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Originally Posted by Hammer0425 View Post
Today could be a record for 757 fuel stops. Looks like so far: 123 (London), 69 (Stockholm), 75 (Hamburg), 125 (Berlin), 121 (Barcelona), 39 (Oslo), and 55 (Paris).

Also stopping for fuel 4695 (St Johns-Newark) and 6276 (Chicago-Monterrey Mexico).
ORD - MTY is the CRJ700, right? If I remember correctly, this is the RJ that flies into ORD and drops paxs off at T5 and then is towed over to T2 as it always ends up being delayed to continue it's flight to SLC that I sometimes take.

I still can't believe they end up flying a RJ international that distance
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Old Jan 4, 15, 5:27 pm
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Originally Posted by owenc View Post
could someone tell me why on earth the belfast flight diverted. Aren't we well within the range not to ever divert??


https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flig...110z/egaa/kalb

and surely 8 hours is a bit excessive for 3000 miles?
0076/04jan
p bfs/out 1126a l00.16 ☨
p bfs/off 1136a
p alb/on 245p
p alb/in 307p
p alb/out 405p
p alb/off 416p
p ewr/on 455p
p ewr/in 514p l03.14 ☨
d fcf/flight deverted for weather
d hdq/☨
d hdq/

sked bfs orig 1110a gtd 22 ship 3133
ewr 200p term gta b52
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Old Jan 4, 15, 5:28 pm
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So did it divert for fuel or what?? What weather?
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