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North TATL 757 fuel stops / diversion delays [2015]

North TATL 757 fuel stops / diversion delays [2015]

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Old Jul 15, 17, 1:19 pm   -   Wikipost
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Due to winter (most common Dec/Jan) weather/jetstream conditions for northern TATL flights, the 757-200's UA uses for the thin european routes need to make fuel stop / diversions. Typically at Bangor (BGR) / Goose Bay(YYR) / Gander (YQX) /St. John's (YYT), ....
The most commonly affected European routes are Barcelona (BCN), Berlin (TXL), Hamburg (HAM), Madrid (MAD), Oslo (OSL), Stockholm (ARN)

Interesting maps
Weather Model - North Atlantic Jet Stream Wind
North Atlantic Jet Stream Forecasts

Related / previous threads
Why does United put 757s on certain flights from EWR to europe

[757-200 diversions] CO starting hubs at Gander, Goose Bay, etc. [threads merged] pmCO

UA69 (ARN-EWR): Wrong plane, wrong fuel calculations, or bad weather?

2013 Westbound TATL 757 "Short Stops"

Consolidated "United 757 TATL Fuel Stop" Thread [Merged] 2012
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Old Jan 4, 15, 5:33 pm
  #16  
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Originally Posted by LASUA1K View Post
Not for fuel
For what then? 3 medicals in a row? AA121 stopped last 3 days as shown above for "winds"
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL121
Jan.2 Bangor
Jan.3 Bangor
Jan.4 Gander

Today's stop looked planned from when the flight took off

US799 AMS-PHL, US751 BRU-PHL, AA211 MAN-JFK, AA55 MAN-ORD also made a visit to Gander today (and some on multiple days recently), so its hardly a unique United issue with TATL 757s

Last edited by rankourabu; Jan 4, 15 at 5:39 pm
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Old Jan 4, 15, 5:34 pm
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Owenc View Post
....What weather?
High altitude winds, jet stream related

Compare these to the flight paths -- typical Dec/Jan patterns
Weather Model - North Atlantic Jet Stream Wind
North Atlantic Jet Stream Forecasts
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Old Jan 4, 15, 5:37 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA View Post
High altitude winds, jet stream related

Compare these to the flight paths -- typical Dec/Jan patterns
Weather Model - North Atlantic Jet Stream Wind
North Atlantic Jet Stream Forecasts
And the trend in the jet stream will probably continue for at least the next few weeks without letting up.
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Old Jan 4, 15, 5:42 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA View Post
High altitude winds, jet stream related

Compare these to the flight paths -- typical Dec/Jan patterns
Weather Model - North Atlantic Jet Stream Wind
North Atlantic Jet Stream Forecasts
But its only 3100 miles and heathrow made it. This is the first time i've seen a flight from Ireland divert for fuel.
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Old Jan 4, 15, 6:12 pm
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Originally Posted by Owenc View Post
But its only 3100 miles and heathrow made it. This is the first time i've seen a flight from Ireland divert for fuel.
EWR weather has been terrible the last two days. That means the flight plan needs an alternate airport with sufficient weather (inclusive of extra fuel to reach that alternate), as well as extra holding fuel. Plus the required 45 minutes (or whatever the number is) of fuel reserve you need when you land no matter what. Therefore, to be able to hold all that fuel, the 757-200 can either be payload restricted, or it can make a fuel stop somewhere en route.

While the winter jetstream and high altitude winds certainly is a huge factor, destination airport weather also plays a large part into the equation.

In the case of UA76 BFS-EWR today 1/4, it looks like they tried for EWR, were put into a hold (did one racetrack loop), and made the decision to divert to ALB because they were probably told by ATC that it would be a while due to the poor EWR weather.
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Old Jan 4, 15, 6:37 pm
  #21  
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Thanks, so really it diverted because of the weather and not the winds.
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Old Jan 4, 15, 6:53 pm
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Originally Posted by Owenc View Post
Thanks, so really it diverted because of the weather and not the winds.
"Weather" is inclusive of winds. You mean the winds aloft over the North Atlantic? Correct, it looks like BFS-EWR diverted due to EWR weather. Visibility was low most of the day. Winds in the NYC area weren't too bad though.
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Old Jan 4, 15, 7:05 pm
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I was in Berlin just before christmas and was told by a 1K agent that they were going to be putting a 767 on the TXL-EWR route because of the diversions (didn't say when). TXL is one of the longer routes, I think. I'm not sure his information was credible.
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Old Jan 4, 15, 7:09 pm
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What's the reason? Strong headwinds?
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Old Jan 4, 15, 7:26 pm
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Wink

Originally Posted by skipmnyc View Post
I was in Berlin just before christmas and was told by a 1K agent that they were going to be putting a 767 on the TXL-EWR route because of the diversions (didn't say when). TXL is one of the longer routes, I think. I'm not sure his information was credible.
EWR-TXL on the 767-300 is planned only for July this year, and is due to summer demand.
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Old Jan 4, 15, 7:43 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by cpyankees25 View Post
"Weather" is inclusive of winds. You mean the winds aloft over the North Atlantic? Correct, it looks like BFS-EWR diverted due to EWR weather. Visibility was low most of the day. Winds in the NYC area weren't too bad though.
Yes the headwinds.
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Old Jan 4, 15, 11:31 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by cpyankees25 View Post
EWR-TXL on the 767-300 is planned only for July this year, and is due to summer demand.
It has been turned into a 762 or 764 in the past during the winter because of a lot of diversions not sitting well with German aviation authorities.

The 763 is a summer demand change. Will be interesting to see if it stays that way as demand dwindles in the colder months.
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Old Jan 4, 15, 11:33 pm
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Originally Posted by fivesixseven View Post
HAM maybe not, but i.e. AMS or perhaps TXL mustn't be that big of a problem for the 2 class version of the 767. After all, isn't that just a matter of marketing your product better (or offering a better - more competitive (inflight) - product)?
It doesn't work.

You're still dumping more capacity onto the market when demand is low (during the winter season). With an unchanged demand curve, price falls

As far as stimulating demand goes ("offering a better - more competitive (inflight) - product"), just ask American how their More Room Throughout Coach experiment went. Most consumers are not willing to pay more for what they perceive as a heavily commoditized product.
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Old Jan 5, 15, 12:20 am
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1/5 again has a plethora of diversions:

UA55 (CDG-EWR)
UA69 (ARN-EWR)
UA75 (HAM-EWR)
UA121 (BCN-EWR)
UA125 (TXL-EWR)

Other longer 757 flights like UA39 (OSL-EWR) and UA63 (MAD-EWR) are going nonstop today as of now...

btw: Yesterday's (1/4) UA125 took a 2:50 delay at Gander due to "aircraft refueling difficulties" after only 50 minutes the day before.

Greetings - Dirk

Last edited by djohannw; Jan 5, 15 at 12:35 am
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Old Jan 5, 15, 6:49 am
  #30  
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Originally Posted by fivesixseven View Post
After all, isn't that just a matter of marketing your product better (or offering a better - more competitive (inflight) - product)?
Yes, but we are talking about UA, aren't we?
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