UA CFO Rainey on Bloomberg: Global First "Effectively the Same" as J
Feb 25, 2015, 1:17 pm
#301
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In your opinion.
I'll find every way to pay for Y and upgrade or buy cheap P fares if only 2-cabins are available. Neither you or UA seem to be taking that into account.
Either way, even if you are correct and its positive from a revenue perspective in the short term, offering undifferentiated products and serving only customers who you hold hostage is no way to run a flyer friendly global airline. But, I suppose that is by COdbaUA mentality. I can't image it will be successful over the long term.
There is absolutely nothing first class about the pmCO J seat. Especially non-bulkhead seats. It's a standard, dated business class product that is no longer competitive.
Either way, even if you are correct and its positive from a revenue perspective in the short term, offering undifferentiated products and serving only customers who you hold hostage is no way to run a flyer friendly global airline. But, I suppose that is by COdbaUA mentality. I can't image it will be successful over the long term.
I'll make this point yet again: There are two classes of "C" (Business) on United in my experience. On the three-class planes you have the inferior product with narrow seats and very limited personal storage (except perhaps window seats upstairs on the 744), where you may end up jammed in to a 4-seat middle section with people looking at you the entire flight. On the two-class aircraft you have larger (especially width-wise) seats, much more personal storage space, and won't have to deal with four-across seating and people looking at you the entire flight.
It's not appropriate to call all UA C "BusinessFirst" because all C seats are not created equal.
It's not appropriate to call all UA C "BusinessFirst" because all C seats are not created equal.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Feb 25, 2015 at 8:13 pm Reason: merging consecutive poast by same member - please use multi-quoting
Feb 25, 2015, 2:13 pm
#303
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I just love having this argument over and over mainly to make sure that the uninitiated know that there is a big difference between the seats before they spend their hard-earned money on an inferior product
Feb 25, 2015, 2:32 pm
#304
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Flying United itself is an inferior product.
Feb 25, 2015, 2:34 pm
#305
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I'll find every way to pay for Y and upgrade or buy cheap P fares if only 2-cabins are available. Neither you or UA seem to be taking that into account.
Feb 25, 2015, 3:57 pm
#306
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Just saw the AA 787 J cabin. It appears UA's Global First cabin/seat is the same as competitors' J cabin. 1-2-1 J configuration seems to be the future.
I understand the upgraders will favor more J seats in the current 2-2-2 or 2-4-2 configuration, but on the other hand, will UA continue to attractive high-paying premium cabin paying customers will its dated business cabins/seats?
I understand the upgraders will favor more J seats in the current 2-2-2 or 2-4-2 configuration, but on the other hand, will UA continue to attractive high-paying premium cabin paying customers will its dated business cabins/seats?
Feb 25, 2015, 4:51 pm
#307
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Of course these people exist, but they are near unicorns. The thread exposes that they are willing to pay HOD to low TOD for upgrades to GF
Adding in 2-3 J seats in place of 1 GF coffin is a clear revenue win for the airline, and just dump the PAX who will fly someone else GF
Adding in 2-3 J seats in place of 1 GF coffin is a clear revenue win for the airline, and just dump the PAX who will fly someone else GF
Not to mention that the same argument can be extended for getting rid of J cabin as well, replacing domestic F with European-style J--, reducing seat pitch etc. etc. (Spirit anyone?) Let me quote Gordon Bethune: "A pizza can be cheap enough that no one wants to buy it." As for the unicorns, well, looking at this thread, unicorns are about 30-40% of the general population. Seriously, I am really very glad that you are happy in the window J seat of the 2-4-2 (I wish I could!). I am, on the other hand, quite happy in GF. I respect your decision/choice, would you please be so kind to extend me and others here the same courtesy?
Either way, even if you are correct and its positive from a revenue perspective in the short term, offering undifferentiated products and serving only customers who you hold hostage is no way to run a flyer friendly global airline. But, I suppose that is by COdbaUA mentality. I can't image it will be successful over the long term.
Last edited by nikolastojsin; Feb 25, 2015 at 4:54 pm Reason: grammar
Feb 25, 2015, 5:43 pm
#308
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I respect your decision/choice, would you please be so kind to extend me and others here the same courtesy?
Yeah, UA can really afford dumping paying premium cabin passengers these days..
Feb 25, 2015, 6:07 pm
#309
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True. But then only the minority fly Business or First. That minority spends big money. Don't see the airlines trying to chase them off. In fact, with the recent changes to MP, it's clear they want to pursue more of the High Value customers than the majority Y customers.
Not quite that rare. Business Class is usually overwhelmingly paid pax rather than upgraders. Most of First are upgraders, but from Business. A lot of people (myself) happily pay Business, in part because we can often more to First.
You're right. I think J is already mostly paid.
Not quite that rare. Business Class is usually overwhelmingly paid pax rather than upgraders. Most of First are upgraders, but from Business. A lot of people (myself) happily pay Business, in part because we can often more to First.
You're right. I think J is already mostly paid.
Feb 25, 2015, 6:12 pm
#310
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Let us just agree to disagree here - paging Bethune (yet again!) about pizza being too cheap... I also think that UA is really trying to attract more HVFs, not less - they just do not know how to do it. At some point, somebody somewhere at UA is going to wake up and realize that two-class planes and dated J product is not the way to do it.
Last edited by nikolastojsin; Feb 25, 2015 at 6:17 pm Reason: typo
Feb 26, 2015, 3:54 am
#311
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So who fills UA? Corporate contracts and other discounts, Fly American hostages and the odd person who for some reason finds the product appealing - or more likely, snags a super cheap P fare that saves thousands over the cost of flying a 'real airline'.
2-4-2, 2-2-2, 1-2-1 or whatever - as long as United offers a product that pales considerably when put up against carriers like SQ, CX, BA, AF, LH, BR, EK, etc etc - the customer mix will remain generally the same no matter how many seats are in the cabin.
US airlines will never compete as long as they are run by poor leadership that is stuck sucking at the toe of the shareholder and obnoxious gasbag analysts that pretend to know the industry.
Feb 26, 2015, 4:38 am
#313
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Sadly, UA is right on this one. If you want to fly real First, you have to use a foreign carrier where the regulatory/union burden does not prevent them from providing a level of service that is simply not possible on UA.
Feb 26, 2015, 4:53 am
#314
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UA could have a world class GF experience if it wanted to. LH manages it and it has as many union problems as UA does, if not more. UA simply doesn't want to spend the money to provide a world class GF experience. The sad part is that UA's customer base doesn't demand it.
Feb 26, 2015, 6:31 am
#315
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Simply not true.
UA could have a world class GF experience if it wanted to. LH manages it and it has as many union problems as UA does, if not more. UA simply doesn't want to spend the money to provide a world class GF experience. The sad part is that UA's customer base doesn't demand it.
UA could have a world class GF experience if it wanted to. LH manages it and it has as many union problems as UA does, if not more. UA simply doesn't want to spend the money to provide a world class GF experience. The sad part is that UA's customer base doesn't demand it.