nerdbirdsjc

Lufthansa is gutting the number of North American destinations that will consistently feature a First Class cabin.

Cathay Pacific has taken delivery of 777-300ERs for North American (and other longhaul) flights that do not feature an F cabin.

The F footprint on JAL and ANA continues to shrink as both airlines progressively adopt the Boeing 787 as their primary medium-haul and longhaul operating platform.

And many other airlines that continue to keep longhaul F on a portion of their network have reduced its capacity.

nikolastojsin

+1 ^ UA is full of self-fulfilling prophecies.
Just an FYI - at EWR, GF passengers can use GS checkin, but not board with GS.

Bonehead

You said it wasn't an employee cabin, implying that it's full of all the other categories that you mentioned it should be full of (revenue plus upgrades and mileage redemptions) if it was a truly premium experience .

uber1K_Flyer

Having flown GF several times lately, GF is not treated like GS. They board with Group 1 (*A Gold, GF, BF, 1K, Platinums). On my ORD-LHR flight recently, I was actually the last person in Group 1 to board because I left the lounge just in time to board. What that meant is that everyone boarding pushed passed me and I couldn't easily even access the overhead.

There was a day that GF and GS boarded with a break to allow them to settle in; then BF then *AGold, 1K with breaks to allow the prior group to settle in. It was great and resulted in a relaxing boarding process - there was a value to the early boarding other than just stashing the bags in the overhead. Now its a mad rush and anything but a relaxing experience. If someone is paying GF fare, they deserve to have as stress free experience as possible - its one of the things they are paying for.

swm61230

Actually for international I remember that the pmUA boarding was
1. First, GS, 1k
2. Business, premier exec, *gold
3. All other premiers
4. Standard economy boarding.

They did used to treat global first class passengers as GS.

LaserSailor

If boarding a plane is stressful, stop traveling and stay home. Honestly, thats an invented FWP.

From an airline perspective, someone either buying a one time GF ticket or J>>F upgrade shouldn't be treated the same as a HVF defined by GS. I can see how that makes sense.

The actually can board with GS, as most of us don't board at the GS call. Only the DYKTIAGS board then.

5khours

IMHO, as recently as 4 or 5 years ago, UA used to have one of the best international F products in the market. Now it does not. It is not even close. Everyone who flies international F knows this. No one will pay for UA GF unless there are no other options on the route.

UA management deliberately wrecked the GF product.

5khours

1. Count the number of international F seats now versus 3 years ago, 5 years, 10 years ago.

2. Count the number of international F "suites" versus 3, 5 and 10 years ago.

3. Count the number of airlines that are currently or continually upgrading the quality of their international F seats.

4. Count the number of airlines that are converting medium haul business seating to flat bed.

While UA is ruining and shrinking their international F product, it is not a global trend.

nerdbirdsjc

The global trend is absolutely to shrink the longhaul F footprint. In fact, United was a holdout on the trend, being one of two global airlines to retain F on all longhaul routes until closing the merger with Continental.

Always Flyin

Nobody else seems confused.

But to clarify for you since my last apparently didn't do it, F is full of upgraders and award tickets. It is NOT full of revenue passengers.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree. OK on domestic flights, but UA should want to encourage revenue F bookings on international flights--not make GF passengers feel like 2nd class passengers.

Self-fullfiing prophecy.

While some carriers are right-sizing F to routes where they can sell the seats, it is a small percentage of the int'l F marketplace.

Your comments above are spot on.

Always Flyin

United isn't shrinking GF--it's eliminating it.

Being UA, it is just too cheap to pay the refurb prices to put new (6-year-old design) seats on existing aircraft.

cerealmarketer

The FT did something on this not too long ago.

The actual numbers of first class seats have grown because of the rapidly growing airlines in China and number of planes being flown by the Middle East carriers (even if they are having F on a smaller % of planes...still net increase in seats).

But of course among Americas and European carriers it's declined rapidly and UA was an outlier.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/b710d...44feabdc0.html

nerdbirdsjc

Question. Do you cast similar aspersions upon the following major global airlines?

Delta
American
Air Canada
Air France
KLM
Etihad Airways
Singapore Airlines
All Nippon Airways
Qantas Airways
Air New Zealand
South African Airways
Japan Airlines
Cathay Pacific
Iberia
US Airways
Lufthansa
Asiana


Since the mid-1990s, all of the above have eliminated F on some or all of their longhaul fleets, either through refurbishment programs that removed F cabins, or through acceptance of new aircraft without F cabins.

The criticism in this thread loses credibility if delivered without an objective embrace of the reality that longhaul F is a shrinking violet in the marketplace.

kevanyalowitz

UA has become a undifferentiated airline focused solely on hostage customers, unwilling to compete on routes or product. It may work in the short term, but it won't over the long term. It's no surprise that UA had far more HVF than CO, and that many of those HVF have left.

UA removing GF and sticking with a lame J product is just part of its it becoming an airline no one paying premium fares actually wants to fly. The pax that have bought into the Business'First' marketing speak and willing to over pay for a 'good enough' J product me be the only 'HVF' left soon.

As far as GF being full of upgrades...I pay substantially more for J if I can upgrade. When UA only offers 2-cabin I buy the cheapest possible P/Z fare or upgrade from Y. One could also use this same logic to argue that most domestic F capacity should be cut on many routes.

nerdbirdsjc

Major longhaul airlines have heard from consumers, loudly and clearly, that the general preference is for a quality hybrid "Business/First" offering over a Business Class diluted to favor an upscale F cabin that is increasingly off-limits due to tightened corporate travel policies.

As a result, the industry has shifted overwhelmingly to a model favoring flat bed seats and nice soft touches in rather upscale Business Class cabins, with F offered on a steadily shrinking footprint. Indeed, we're likely just one more global economic downturn (and corp travel belt-tightening cycle) away from the industry -- except perhaps BA and the ME3 -- walking away from longhaul F altogether.