Aug 17, 2013, 10:44 am

FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides

Updates to Wiki as of 20 January 2014

Planned changes in aircraft by date and route:

SFO -- SYD: first 772 departs SFO 27 March; turns to 840 at SYD on 29 March

LAX -- SYD: first 772 departs LAX 29 March; turn off 840-29th.

NRT -- ORD: First 744 departs NRT 27 March (aircraft turn at ORD to PVG and FRA in succession the day following arrival from NRT)
ORD -- NRT: First 744 departs ORD 31 March

ORD -- PVG: First 744 departs ORD 28 March
PVG -- ORD: First 744 departs PVG 29 March

ORD -- FRA: First 744 departs ORD 29 March
FRA -- ORD: First 744 departs FRA 30 March

NRT -- SFO: 852 to operate with 772 27 March through 31 March inclusive (772 coming out of rotation)

Or, you can just go look at the good work here (note that info posted above differs from AIRLINEROUTE info dated 4 January 2014 and before):

http://airlineroute.net/2013/08/17/ua-s14update1/

Or, straight to the source if you want to do your own research:

http://www.oag.com/Global

[Confirmed] SYD going UA 3 Cabin 777 in 2014 [and other 747 route changes]

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Aug 17, 2013, 8:09 pm

#346

tuolumne

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 2,324

Quote:

Originally Posted by mduell

United B744 on time performance has improved a little bit, but they're still really lagging Delta 744 on time performance.

Code:

   Month    | UA OTP | DL OTP | UA - DL
------------+--------+--------+---------
 2012-08-01 |     60 |     83 |     -23
 2012-09-01 |     64 |     80 |     -16
 2012-10-01 |     66 |     83 |     -17
 2012-11-01 |     66 |     85 |     -19
 2012-12-01 |     60 |     81 |     -21
 2013-01-01 |     77 |     86 |     -9
 2013-02-01 |     76 |     84 |     -8
 2013-03-01 |     68 |     82 |     -14
 2013-04-01 |     67 |     80 |     -13
 2013-05-01 |     74 |     85 |     -11
 2013-06-01 |     69 |     84 |     -15
 2013-07-01 |     67 |     85 |     -18
 2013-08-01 |     75 |     90 |     -15

The dispatch reliability numbers are what matter, not in time. UAL's 744s had a dispatch rate that was in line with BA and LH. The problems were stretching the fleet between two hubs along with deferred maintenance from the pmUA era. Most airlines operate their 744 fleet out of one hub.

Aug 17, 2013, 8:34 pm

#347

cesco.g

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Oct 1999

Posts: 11,468

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite1K

ORD-FRA had a 744 back in the Summer of 2011.

The second ORD-FRA flight (formerly known as UA 940) had the 744 at least for a couple of years in high-season. Some time back also IAD-FRA had the 744 in high season on the first flight, formerly known as UA 916.
The incoming 744 (UA 917) then proceeded onto LAX and returned the next morning. Talking about flying cross-country in 3-class style.

Aug 17, 2013, 8:49 pm

#348

mre5765

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Sep 2007

Location: SJC, SFO, YYC

Programs: AA-EXP, AA-0.41MM, UA-Gold, Ex UA-1K (2006 thru 2015), PMUA-0.95MM, COUA-1.5MM-lite, AF-Silver

Posts: 13,437

Quote:

Originally Posted by BearX220

Don't hold your breath for that. At the rate this company is going, three years from now they'll downgauge the route to 739s and fly LAX-HNL-PPT-GUM-CNS-SYD. It'll take two days and you'll sit there and like it.

I think they will use CRJs instead of 737s to get SYD.

Anyway I think the redeployment of 747s on the ORD/FRA route is a sign that UA sees a need for super jumbo. So I expect a 747-8i order.

Aug 17, 2013, 9:18 pm

#349

cova

Join Date: Oct 2003

Location: DCA

Programs: UA LT 1K, AA EXP, Bonvoy LT Titan, Avis PC, Hilton Gold

Posts: 9,658

Quote:

Originally Posted by BayAreaPilot

LAX-SYD barely cracks the top 30 for longest scheduled non-stop flights. Longer UA routes are EWR-HKG, EWR-BOM, and ORD-HKG.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-sto...ongest_flights

Once - EWR-SIN goes - then DFW-SYD becomes longest until IST-SYD starts.

Aug 17, 2013, 9:20 pm

#350

BearX220

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Jul 1999

Location: ORD/MDW

Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI

Posts: 19,719

Quote:

Originally Posted by mre5765

Anyway I think the redeployment of 747s on the ORD/FRA route is a sign that UA sees a need for super jumbo. So I expect a 747-8i order.

I think it will be very difficult to justify adoption of what amounts to a subfleet devoted to a handful (less than six) routes in the all-important network. And anyway, what will UA use for money?

Aug 17, 2013, 9:45 pm

#351

DaviddesJ

Suspended

Join Date: May 2011

Location: SFO

Programs: UA 1K

Posts: 1,961

Quote:

Originally Posted by mre5765

Anyway I think the redeployment of 747s on the ORD/FRA route is a sign that UA sees a need for super jumbo. So I expect a 747-8i order.

I think they see a reason to use the planes that they already own. That's a lot different from spending lots of money for new planes. I would love to see UA fly the 747-8 (especially if they configure it better than they have their recent purchases), but I'm not holding my breath.

Aug 17, 2013, 10:49 pm

#352

uastarflyer

A FlyerTalk Posting Legend

Join Date: Aug 2003

Programs: UA 1K 1MM (finally!), IHG AMB-Spire, HH Diamond

Posts: 60,174

Quote:

Originally Posted by mre5765

Anyway I think the redeployment of 747s on the ORD/FRA route is a sign that UA sees a need for super jumbo.

The fact the 747s are concentrating more on NRT/FRA are likely influenced by their JV with NH/LH.

PVG instead of HKG surprises me. Maybe IFE related.

Aug 17, 2013, 10:57 pm

#353

DVX

Join Date: Jun 2012

Posts: 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MileCards

Thank the JVs with LH and ANA for this decision

Quote:

Originally Posted by uastarflyer

The fact the 747s are concentrating more on NRT/FRA are likely influenced by their JV with NH/LH.

PVG instead of HKG surprises me. Maybe IFE related.

Bingo. Now if a 744 goes tech, whether that be in Chicago or Frankfurt or Tokyo, they can rely on LH and NH to get passengers where they need to go with minimum cost & delay. Whereas, now when the plane goes tech in Sydney, everyone is kind of screwed.

I will admit that PVG is a bit of a head scratcher though.

Aug 18, 2013, 12:29 am

#354

flymd

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Illinois

Programs: UAMP Premier Platinum, HHonors Diamond VIP, Marriott Gold

Posts: 21

While I am pleased to see the 3-class 777's on the SFO-SYD and LAX-SYD routes (as all of my prior trips to OZ were with AC or NZ), as an ORD based flyer I'm not too happy to see the UA 747's with their poor Y-class product coming back. This means any flights involving NRT flights in the future will have to go via IAD/IAH/EWR or just be with NH and FRA flights will have to be on the earlier UA 777 or one of the LH 747's (hoping to see the -8 here sooner than later).

Aug 18, 2013, 1:49 am

#355

LordTentacle

Join Date: Mar 2012

Location: Syd

Programs: UA 1k 1MM, VA G

Posts: 886

Quote:

Originally Posted by flymd

While I am pleased to see the 3-class 777's on the SFO-SYD and LAX-SYD routes

How is this better?
The 777 j product is even worse then the 747 j (smaller/narrower)
Loss of upper deck j which IMHO was better then F when traveling as a couple
And
Possible loss of wifi as afaik none of the 777s have yet to be converted ???

Aug 18, 2013, 2:36 am

#356

DaviddesJ

Suspended

Join Date: May 2011

Location: SFO

Programs: UA 1K

Posts: 1,961

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordTentacle

How is this better?
The 777 j product is even worse then the 747 j (smaller/narrower)

He said he's flying in Y. Not everyone is as fortunate as you.

Aug 18, 2013, 3:42 am

#357

LordTentacle

Join Date: Mar 2012

Location: Syd

Programs: UA 1k 1MM, VA G

Posts: 886

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaviddesJ

He said he's flying in Y. Not everyone is as fortunate as you.

I fly in y on half my trips per year
Still prefer the 747 over the 777 any day of the week
But that's just me

Aug 18, 2013, 4:04 am

#358

DaviddesJ

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Location: SFO

Programs: UA 1K

Posts: 1,961

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordTentacle

I fly in y on half my trips per year
Still prefer the 747 over the 777 any day of the week
But that's just me

Well, the 747 seats are definitely much narrower. Whether that's a big difference to you probably depends on your body type.

Aug 18, 2013, 8:33 am

#359

TravellingMan

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: DEN

Programs: Free checked in bag on UA & DL. Free icecream at Marriott checkin.

Posts: 2,862

“It’s important to keep in mind that demand and profitable demand can look very different,” Andrew said. “Our airline is a business, and businesses need to make money. We believe these changes will help us achieve a greater level of profitability for our airline, which in turn benefits our co-workers and all of our stakeholders.”

Dear Andrew: As you optimize the profitability of UA, do step back and watch the bigger picture. I am not sure you or your minions even try flying on UA or maybe you assign mainline jets to your favorite destinations. But if you fly 50K miles a year on just RJs you will understand that passengers need comfort too.

Do check your optimizer, it looks like you have lost the plot. This down gauging is going to leave you with fewer and fewer passengers that ultimately it might be cheaper for you to buy consolidator style seats on other carriers and send your passengers to them. Maybe that is what the Star Alliance is for you.

Aug 18, 2013, 12:22 pm

#360

SFO_FT

Join Date: Jan 2000

Programs: UA 1k, AA EXPLT, NZ GE, VA PLT Hyatt Diam, Marr Plat, HH Diam

Posts: 3,445

The downgauge now means that C pax have a 25% chance of getting one of the dreaded center seats (vs a 12% chance on the 744s). Plus, with fewer pax able to UPG to F, that means even more full-fare C pax actually seated in the C cabin ... and now more than double the odds of getting a bad seat.

Pay for UA C class to Oz? NZ offers a much better product -- will be interesting to see how UA's C pricing changes (up? down? no diff?)

Too bad UA doesn't develop a sub-fleet for their long-haul flights with expanded premium cabins.