June 2012 DOT Data Released
Aug 9, 2012, 12:09 pm
#16
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
That certainly could be part of it. Another part may be the ability to reaccommodate effectively. A cheap bump may be fine if the reaccommodation is good (e.g., minimal delay, quality seat on rebook, etc.).
However, I have seen a number of lowball offers from COdbaUA that are for $200 for an overnight. While it may work in some cases, it may not work so well in others.
IDB compensation is regulated, and in many cases is more than the VDB compensation offered. I've heard many stories from GAs where they are writing significant checks, sometimes $1,000 or more, for IDBs.
However, I have seen a number of lowball offers from COdbaUA that are for $200 for an overnight. While it may work in some cases, it may not work so well in others.
IDB compensation is regulated, and in many cases is more than the VDB compensation offered. I've heard many stories from GAs where they are writing significant checks, sometimes $1,000 or more, for IDBs.
According to this link:
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/freque...ion-explained/
The IDB costs are very high, and much higher than typical VDB offers that I think we would agree are in the $200-600 range.
So, if CO is paying more in IDB fees than what they're offering in VDB, it seems to me, there is a sweet spot to increase VDB offers and still pay less than they're paying in IDB.
In other words, it seems like they are screwing themselves.
This doesn't make sense ... usually we're the ones getting screwed.
There must be something missing here ...
Aug 9, 2012, 12:30 pm
#17
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Southern California, GVA, SIN, LHR, BRU, CDG
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Sigh! Is it any wonder that a lot of us, former very loyal UA and CO customers, have gone to other carriers. These numbers are absolutely awful and there is no evidence that anything will improve in the near future. The people I really feel bad for are the long time sUA and sCO employees who are trying hard to provide good service and create a good airline...The decisions made by the executive suite are defeating them before they can even start!
Sad, Sad, Sad.
"In successful organizations, lawyers are support staff."
Sad, Sad, Sad.
"In successful organizations, lawyers are support staff."
Aug 9, 2012, 12:34 pm
#18
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So, if CO is paying more in IDB fees than what they're offering in VDB, it seems to me, there is a sweet spot to increase VDB offers and still pay less than they're paying in IDB.
In other words, it seems like they are screwing themselves.
This doesn't make sense ... usually we're the ones getting screwed.
There must be something missing here ...
In other words, it seems like they are screwing themselves.
This doesn't make sense ... usually we're the ones getting screwed.
There must be something missing here ...
it might just be easier to get out the checkbook than screw around with SHARES to get the desired results. So yeah, add that to the SHARES "cost savings".
Aug 9, 2012, 12:36 pm
#19
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
there are more factors at play, first, if the agents can't/won't rebook on OAL, it makes VDBs harder to be accepted if the length of delay is unreasonable (e.g. there's an AA flight that leaves in 90 minutes or you can overnight on United and leave tomorrow afternoon. agent refuses to rebook on AA => IDB).
it might just be easier to get out the checkbook than screw around with SHARES to get the desired results. So yeah, add that to the SHARES "cost savings".
it might just be easier to get out the checkbook than screw around with SHARES to get the desired results. So yeah, add that to the SHARES "cost savings".
Aug 9, 2012, 12:41 pm
#20
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,284
What this is suggesting though, is that UA wouldn't have been able to accommodate many last-minute ticket buyers if they'd have to deny boarding to even more advance-purchase buyers, possibly record numbers of them. All things considered, the cheap advance ticket buyers were actually lucky high-priced flyers stayed away from UA in June.
Any way one wants to look at it, I think it's fair to say that UA isn't doing very well in securing the most valuable flyers by revenue as they had been, or that their competitors are, and cheap TODs aren't making up the fare discrepancy. Agree/disagree?
Aug 9, 2012, 1:12 pm
#21
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In these situations, does UA pay "full retail price" to the other carrier? Or, do the carriers have some agreements to take each other's PAX at pre-set or heavily discounted prices?
Aug 9, 2012, 2:39 pm
#22
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Wow. That's horrible.
The decision to over-book is one thing. If they over-book and convert those to VDB, it means the PAX are satisfied, because the "voluntarily" took an offer and most people won't volunteer to take something they don't want.
So, this means that COdbaUA is actually making a conscious decision NOT to offer the level of compensation that DL is offering, that makes a flyer feel OK with being denied boarding.
Rather, they are just grabbing them and throwing them off the plane, and probably spitting on them while they hit the tarmac.
There are regulations for minimum allowable compensation in IDB cases, right? So, this means that, most likely, CO has decided that they won't pay more than the minimum required by law, and that DL is probably paying more than the minimum required by law, to convert IDB to VDB and end up with a happy PAX.
Seem right?
The decision to over-book is one thing. If they over-book and convert those to VDB, it means the PAX are satisfied, because the "voluntarily" took an offer and most people won't volunteer to take something they don't want.
So, this means that COdbaUA is actually making a conscious decision NOT to offer the level of compensation that DL is offering, that makes a flyer feel OK with being denied boarding.
Rather, they are just grabbing them and throwing them off the plane, and probably spitting on them while they hit the tarmac.
There are regulations for minimum allowable compensation in IDB cases, right? So, this means that, most likely, CO has decided that they won't pay more than the minimum required by law, and that DL is probably paying more than the minimum required by law, to convert IDB to VDB and end up with a happy PAX.
Seem right?
OR the GAs simply dont have time to process the VDBs. On a flight I had July 4th, IAD-TPA there was going to be 8-10 DBs. I volenteered but I needed to be booked on a flight leaving in the next 15 minutes. The GA looked at her screen and said she didn't have time to process it. I didn't take the VDB and as a result UA had to IDB someone.
Aug 9, 2012, 4:03 pm
#23
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Aug 9, 2012, 4:08 pm
#24
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OR the GAs simply dont have time to process the VDBs. On a flight I had July 4th, IAD-TPA there was going to be 8-10 DBs. I volenteered but I needed to be booked on a flight leaving in the next 15 minutes. The GA looked at her screen and said she didn't have time to process it. I didn't take the VDB and as a result UA had to IDB someone.
That certainly makes sense. Only the gate responsible for the flight can process a flight after flight close in SHARES. Given that, plus the time required to reissue a ticket, unless you're at least 45 minutes to an hour out from the next flight at the time the agent decides to accept you, it's probably not going to happen.
Aug 9, 2012, 4:31 pm
#25
Join Date: Jun 2009
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I can't imagine UA improved much in July as I went 4/4 on delays (:30, :60, :150, :180).
My 4 NZ segments were all on time, too bad 2 of them were necessarily attached to delayed UA segments.
I hope my lifetime inaugural WN experience next week goes swimmingly.
It's gotten so bad I can't even take pleasure in being critical about it; some concern about what it's going to take to find the bottom here, and that it might not be anytime soon.
My 4 NZ segments were all on time, too bad 2 of them were necessarily attached to delayed UA segments.
I hope my lifetime inaugural WN experience next week goes swimmingly.
It's gotten so bad I can't even take pleasure in being critical about it; some concern about what it's going to take to find the bottom here, and that it might not be anytime soon.
Aug 9, 2012, 4:54 pm
#26
Join Date: Dec 2003
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NBC Nightly News just reported that EWR is the worst airport in the nation for on-time departures and on-time arrivals.
Who is primary tenant at EWR? Oh yeah...
SLC was best, fyi.
Who is primary tenant at EWR? Oh yeah...
SLC was best, fyi.
Aug 9, 2012, 5:00 pm
#27
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Aug 9, 2012, 5:03 pm
#28
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
The only benefit I thought I was going to enjoy was UA metal to TLV, DEL, MXP, and a variety of other European destinations. I imagined using GPUs to UG directly to so many new places.
Now, not only is it nearly impossible to UG, but you can't even justify a plane change at EWR for a host of reasons.
For me, this bloody merger might as well have not happened. I'm not benefiting from any of the new routes.
From SFO, makes more sense to get to FRA then transfer with a real airline in a real airport.
Aug 9, 2012, 5:38 pm
#29
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- Most delayed airline -- again below not just the mainline carriers, but below all the regionals as well.
- Highest cancellation rate of the mainline carriers.
- Highest rate of mishandled bags of the mainline carriers.
- Highest DOT complaint rate.
- This report included the quarterly DB rates for Q2, and again UA was highest IDB rate of the mainline carriers.
Aug 9, 2012, 5:54 pm
#30
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The only benefit I thought I was going to enjoy was UA metal to TLV, DEL, MXP, and a variety of other European destinations. I imagined using GPUs to UG directly to so many new places.