UAs Official Response to HKG Ticketing/IT Error: Redeem @ Correct Amount or Redeposit
Jul 19, 2012, 9:13 am
#1396
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: 10^7 mm from Ȱ
Programs: Hyatt D/HHonors D/ SPG P/ Marriott P/ IHG P/ UA 1K/ AA EXP/ DL D
Posts: 1,976
guinea pig experience
This is related to my previous post here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18958769-post1245.html
This morning I found the previous pending charges for this itin disappeared - not in posted charges, just disappeared. My take is: UA won't charge it any more.
Now I have to call.
Fortunately, I talked to a very friendly lady.
Agent: ET has a schedule change. That's why we couldn't ticket your itin. However, I may change ET flight to TG flight from BKK to HKG.
Me: great, thanks!
Then here comes the punchline:
Agent: You will need 45,000 miles for this itin, and I only see 1,067 miles in your account.
Me: I think I already paid miles for this itin back on Sunday, right?
Agent: no, you didn't...wait a second...(she found out the trick...)
Me: Should ET have no schedule change, this itin would have been ticketed. Could you please change it right now?
Agent: I will put you on hold for a second...
(20 minutes later)
Agent: We need to collect the right miles for this ticket, 45K. The fact
that you got this ticket for 4 miles at the first place doesn't mean you can
still get it right now...
Me：What? Is that what your manager told you?
Agent: yup...
Me：Let me ask you in this way: should this itin be ticketed at the first
place, and later on ET has a schedule change, may I change it without
additional miles?
Agent: yes you can...okay, do you still want to ticket it or not? Because we won't ticket it for just 4 miles.
Me：please do me a favor, just leave it as-is coz I would like to think
about it.
Agent: okay...
*******************
Now my question: does DoT mandate covers a Confirmed Purchase the same as a Ticketed Itinerary? I still have the receipt from UA saying 4 miles plus tax, and later on UA clearly hiked the price.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18958769-post1245.html
This morning I found the previous pending charges for this itin disappeared - not in posted charges, just disappeared. My take is: UA won't charge it any more.
Now I have to call.
Fortunately, I talked to a very friendly lady.
Agent: ET has a schedule change. That's why we couldn't ticket your itin. However, I may change ET flight to TG flight from BKK to HKG.
Me: great, thanks!
Then here comes the punchline:
Agent: You will need 45,000 miles for this itin, and I only see 1,067 miles in your account.
Me: I think I already paid miles for this itin back on Sunday, right?
Agent: no, you didn't...wait a second...(she found out the trick...)
Me: Should ET have no schedule change, this itin would have been ticketed. Could you please change it right now?
Agent: I will put you on hold for a second...
(20 minutes later)
Agent: We need to collect the right miles for this ticket, 45K. The fact
that you got this ticket for 4 miles at the first place doesn't mean you can
still get it right now...
Me：What? Is that what your manager told you?
Agent: yup...
Me：Let me ask you in this way: should this itin be ticketed at the first
place, and later on ET has a schedule change, may I change it without
additional miles?
Agent: yes you can...okay, do you still want to ticket it or not? Because we won't ticket it for just 4 miles.
Me：please do me a favor, just leave it as-is coz I would like to think
about it.
Agent: okay...
*******************
Now my question: does DoT mandate covers a Confirmed Purchase the same as a Ticketed Itinerary? I still have the receipt from UA saying 4 miles plus tax, and later on UA clearly hiked the price.
Jul 19, 2012, 9:18 am
#1397
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
On the morality and ethics question, I always follow the Golden Rule in life. I believe companies deserve the same amount of loyalty from customers and employees that it is willing to demonstrate to those same customers and employees. Any customer or employee who gives a company any more loyalty than what it gets in return is foolish.
Jul 19, 2012, 9:19 am
#1398
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SAN
Programs: UA 1MM/1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 6,832
But it does point to the complexity of this problem. Not everyone who got in on this is in the same boat.
Just curious as I agree it seems a little strange that UA claims they've contacted people but no one has been actually contacted and folks have flown.
Hi Everyone, over the weekend, we discovered a united.com programming error that allowed customers to obtain Mileage Plus travel awards to and from Hong Kong for as little as four miles roundtrip per person, substantially below published levels, which we disclose to customers. We have since corrected the error and will be in contact with customers who have tickets issued at the incorrect award amounts. Customers will be given the choice to redeem at the correct mileage amount or re-deposit their award with all fees waived. We regret any inconvenience this has caused you, and appreciate your understanding.
Jul 19, 2012, 9:31 am
#1399
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BOS/ORH
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 18,323
If you weren't issued a ticket number i believe your out of luck.
Last edited by CDKing; Jul 19, 2012 at 9:38 am
Jul 19, 2012, 9:41 am
#1400
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: UA Gold-MM, AA Gold-MM, F9-Silver, Hyatt Something, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,393
Jul 19, 2012, 9:41 am
#1401
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Here and there
Programs: General member, former 1P
Posts: 583
"Loser does not pay attorney fees absent a statutory basis" is another way of saying "the loser may pay attorney fees if the law permits it." So the loser may pay attorney fees. He may not. I suggest that is a factor that an individual take into account before he sues United in his local court.
As for costs (not fees), you might be surprised at how fast the meter can run. As I sit here I am looking at a prevailing defendant's motion for costs in a run-of-the-mill contract case. The defendant is a local land surveying company. Not exactly Fortune 500.
The tab: $6,000. The line item for "in house photocopies" alone is $1,000. Loser paid. That is costs only, not attorney's fees.
Despite what Wikipedia says, taking on a company - especially a big one - in court is not a trivial matter. Maybe you're right, UA doesn't even bother to defend it and you prevail. Anything could happen. But if someone thinks he's not putting himself at substantial risk by kicking a tiger in the behind, he's got blinders on.
Jul 19, 2012, 9:45 am
#1402
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: 10^7 mm from Ȱ
Programs: Hyatt D/HHonors D/ SPG P/ Marriott P/ IHG P/ UA 1K/ AA EXP/ DL D
Posts: 1,976
Jul 19, 2012, 9:46 am
#1403
Formerly known as fsa_ea
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Up in the Air
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Posts: 2,229
Jul 19, 2012, 9:49 am
#1404
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859
And this is the fuzzy part - can we complain to DOT about a post purchase price increase? Or does the DOT want us to settle it with the FF program itself or go to court as per their previous comments.
Jul 19, 2012, 9:50 am
#1405
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
I believe the UA downgrade policy would dictate a voucher per segment downgraded. Not sure how the policy handles a double-downgrade (F --> J --> Y).
But SFO-HKG is a $1,000 voucher. It could be more for people with connections.
Jul 19, 2012, 9:51 am
#1406
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 5,001
If I were UA management I would find it very hard to comprehend the notion that my "most loyal customers" were the ones who take gleeful pride in taking advantage of a regrettable but honest mistake.
In fact, I find it hard to comprehend how I or anyone who runs a business - and I'm sure there are more than a few on this discussion who do so - should somehow prefer doing business with those who would gladly hurt me instead of those who seek to conduct their business relationships according to how they would want to be treated.
In fact, I find it hard to comprehend how I or anyone who runs a business - and I'm sure there are more than a few on this discussion who do so - should somehow prefer doing business with those who would gladly hurt me instead of those who seek to conduct their business relationships according to how they would want to be treated.
It's an amazing display of hubris and narcissism. If they had done any reading on FT at all, they would know that UA's real "most loyal customers" are the GSs, who are currently experiencing very poor treatment relative to their revenue contributions to UA. If the real "most loyal customers" are getting treated like crap, why on earth would UA care about losing a bargain-hunting, whining, "over-entitled" scammer?
I don't have a problem with anyone flying these itineraries if they can get away with it. I do have a problem with the attitude that they will have been wronged should the DOT rule in UA's favor or should UA decide to cancel the tickets anyway and pay the fines/penalties.
Be honest with yourself, you had an opportunity to scam UA and took it.
If it goes your way, fine. If you get slammed by UA, show some dignity and go quietly into the night instead of looking like a fool proclaiming the "rule of law".
The attitude, that since UA has screwed you means that it is OK for you to screw them, is merely an expedient way to excuse oneself for less than honorable behavior.
Jul 19, 2012, 9:54 am
#1407
Formerly known as hcampana
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AMS
Programs: Hilton Diamond
Posts: 463
I thought the policy was only to refund the difference in price or miles between the 2 fares.
Jul 19, 2012, 9:57 am
#1408
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lahaina, HI & Los Angeles, CA
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 2,403
The more important issue, is the fact they have had a severe break-down of internal controls and perhaps a violation of the Sarbanes-Oxley act. Pricing and ticketing systems should have a myriad of control and logic associated with them to prevent such errors. As they have demonstrated they have none, so how can an auditor or upper management attest they have confidence that the proper controls are in place so the financial statements are complete & accurate? It's one thing to load a mistake fare, but another to show an award at face value, only to have it settle the transaction at some unrelated amount.
Jul 19, 2012, 10:02 am
#1409
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Midwest
Programs: Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 261
Are those who take these flights required to report the received value to the Internal Revenue Service? Would United Airlines report the value to the IRS?
Last edited by Chevelter; Jul 19, 2012 at 10:07 am Reason: changed to a question
Jul 19, 2012, 10:06 am
#1410
Join Date: Apr 2007
Programs: Marriott Plat
Posts: 113
Well the quoted value is 4 miles so I will be happy to pay tax on the penny per mile.
Last edited by l etoile; Jul 19, 2012 at 1:46 pm Reason: update vbb/ political comment removed