Process to create top UA FF concerns
Jun 8, 2012, 10:02 pm
#16
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near SEA
Programs: UA MM, AS MVPG75K, Marriott Lifetime Gold
Posts: 7,969
I am not a big fan of a silver/gold/platinum using miles (or an RPU for plat) to upgrade trumping a 1K on a CPU (within the 1K's CPU window of 96-24h until departure).
That would be my #2 behind fixing the "out-of-sync itins causing CPU processing to fail" issue which seems to be the cause of a lot of the TODs and nonsense around upgrades/buy-ups happening out of order. That is by far the most important thing I'd like to see fixed.
The 2010 UA policy was 2 RPUs (fka CR-1s) if you flew 10k BIS in a quarter. In practice, EQM was sufficient though the benefit was described as flight miles IIRC. Pre-UDU, the 10k was calculated if you went over a 10k breakpoint within a quarter and it was tied loosely to e500 earning (again, that's how it worked - it was published differently). This allowed a 1K to get 8 CR-1s when flying 100k miles (with at least 10k/quarter). There was no way to get more.
Under the 2011 policy, the process was changed to award at 75k EQM and every multiple of 25k EQM after. After some pushback from FTers and other FFers, 2011 was a transitional year whereby the new 75k/100k/125k/etc earning was combined with the 2010 earning policy (and the 2010 policy was also officially changed to EQM). So if you flew 100k equally spaced throughout the year in 2011, you earned 12 CR-1s (with the potential for 2 more at every 25k EQM beyond 100k). Earning was great!
As of 2012, it's simply at 75k and every multiple of 25k thereafter. So a 1K will earn 4 RPUs flying 100k. But if they flew 200k, they would earn 12 RPUs (which is more than the 2010 and before policy).
So there's now more possible upside, but the base is half what it was.
EDIT: Doh, I typed all that and realized you asked about GPUs... they have been 6 fare-restricted instruments for some time on sUA. AA offers 8 unrestriced. sCO offered unrestricted originally in 2010 but later changed it to restricted in 2011.
That would be my #2 behind fixing the "out-of-sync itins causing CPU processing to fail" issue which seems to be the cause of a lot of the TODs and nonsense around upgrades/buy-ups happening out of order. That is by far the most important thing I'd like to see fixed.
Under the 2011 policy, the process was changed to award at 75k EQM and every multiple of 25k EQM after. After some pushback from FTers and other FFers, 2011 was a transitional year whereby the new 75k/100k/125k/etc earning was combined with the 2010 earning policy (and the 2010 policy was also officially changed to EQM). So if you flew 100k equally spaced throughout the year in 2011, you earned 12 CR-1s (with the potential for 2 more at every 25k EQM beyond 100k). Earning was great!
As of 2012, it's simply at 75k and every multiple of 25k thereafter. So a 1K will earn 4 RPUs flying 100k. But if they flew 200k, they would earn 12 RPUs (which is more than the 2010 and before policy).
So there's now more possible upside, but the base is half what it was.
EDIT: Doh, I typed all that and realized you asked about GPUs... they have been 6 fare-restricted instruments for some time on sUA. AA offers 8 unrestriced. sCO offered unrestricted originally in 2010 but later changed it to restricted in 2011.
Last edited by bmvaughn; Jun 8, 2012 at 10:11 pm
Jun 8, 2012, 10:47 pm
#17
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MBS/FNT/LAN
Programs: UA 1K, HH Gold, Mariott Gold
Posts: 9,630
Just a thought.... and I know it is not a big deal to most, but I think it does have an effect on the silvers getting E+:
Tier the number of companions you are allowed to bring to E+ (and feel free to debate whether it should require the same PNR). But something like allowing ALL elites to pre-book E+ and a companion allotment of:
again, Just a thought
Tier the number of companions you are allowed to bring to E+ (and feel free to debate whether it should require the same PNR). But something like allowing ALL elites to pre-book E+ and a companion allotment of:
- Silver +1 companion
- Gold +3 companions
- Plat +6 companions
- 1K/GS +7 companions
again, Just a thought
Jun 8, 2012, 10:55 pm
#18
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: SAN
Programs: UA 1K MM, HH Silver, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 221
One thing to consider as well, is the receipt of the RPU/GPU as soon as the status is received, and not at the end of the year, or even better get the RPU/GPU deposited at the time of receiving the status, with an expiry at the end of the following year. Basically follow the MileagePlus status expiry
To add to the points of the GPU being able to use it on any fare would be ideal. Including premium cabins say a Z/P fare and upgrade to GlobalFirst.
One option that could be considered would also being able to use 2xGPU to upgrade on any fare, and keep the W fare restriction for using 1 GPU.
So I could book a T fare and apply 2GPUs to each leg of the flight - or pay the higher fare for W and just apply 1GPU for each leg of the flight.
Same logic would apply on premium cabins - thoughts?
To add to the points of the GPU being able to use it on any fare would be ideal. Including premium cabins say a Z/P fare and upgrade to GlobalFirst.
One option that could be considered would also being able to use 2xGPU to upgrade on any fare, and keep the W fare restriction for using 1 GPU.
So I could book a T fare and apply 2GPUs to each leg of the flight - or pay the higher fare for W and just apply 1GPU for each leg of the flight.
Same logic would apply on premium cabins - thoughts?
Jun 9, 2012, 7:33 am
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
While it does makes sense to not waste effort trying to influence a policy change that United already agrees with us on, when there's no timeline to fixing the things not working, those things still need to be on a list. For some of these, someone will decide it's easier to make it policy rather than fix. When I'm not getting the right priority on a misconnect, I don't care whether it's policy, lack of training, or a buggy system, I just want it working. Some of the most frustrating things (especially around upgrades) are "stealth policies". When pushed, it's a broken system, don't blame us. But if there were a policy to make it better, it would get better. That make is a policy topic.
For example, when on a "direct" flight, you can't select a seat on the second segment or get equal upgrade processing, and after 2 hours on the phone your reservation got so messed up, you don't dare try to work against the system for that again, if it's on the "won't fix" list, they've made it a policy to offer that level of service.
For example, when on a "direct" flight, you can't select a seat on the second segment or get equal upgrade processing, and after 2 hours on the phone your reservation got so messed up, you don't dare try to work against the system for that again, if it's on the "won't fix" list, they've made it a policy to offer that level of service.
What I'm finding most frustrating is not the lousy policies, per se, but the lousy results. Deadlines for fixing some of the manifold problems would make sense.
And let's face it, both the lousy policies and the lousy results start at the top, with lousy management that lives in a 1984 world of war is peace and lousy customer service is great customer service. If we had an online petition here in favor of dumping Smisek and his top personnel, I'd be all in favor.
Having said that, I applaud the consensus you're trying to build, WCUA, even if my top priority of dumping UA management could not be on your list. So here is what I'd favor, not necessarily in priority order (except #1), however unrealistic some elements might be:
1. Abolish SHARES and revert to UA's previous reservation system. Otherwise whatever we advocate or UA does is just a patch job on a bald, shredding tire
2. Clear, transparent upgrade policy (and results).
3. End of TODs.
4. Ending the restrictions that (apparently) SHARES imposes on what can be done with reservations, upgrade requests, etc. within 24 hours of flight.
5. GPUs expire when 1K status does, the end of January each year.
6. RPUs accrue at old rate of 2 per 10K UA BIS miles per quarter.
7. International GPU/miles-copay upgrades from any fare class, not just W and higher.
8. No more Smisek pre-flight videos. (I know we don't want to make this personal, but this is a genuine drawback of flying UA and perhaps could be cast in non-personal terms.)
Jun 9, 2012, 7:48 am
#20
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ORF
Posts: 1,740
For me, there is only one issue, basic customer service. It is what drove me from UA years ago. All the stuff that is happening now is downright mind boggling, but it's just piling more dirt on to what I was already tired of. They need to get back to a pre-Tilton customer service model before any of these issues are even in play for me.
The one thing that I think is a direct influence on this that seems to come up here is SHARES. That needs to either be revamped or flat out go, which isn't likely. Agents need to be empowered to make things happen, period. It's the whole basis of serving those who give you money. Phone agents, Ticketing Agents, Gate Agents, all of them.
The one thing that I think is a direct influence on this that seems to come up here is SHARES. That needs to either be revamped or flat out go, which isn't likely. Agents need to be empowered to make things happen, period. It's the whole basis of serving those who give you money. Phone agents, Ticketing Agents, Gate Agents, all of them.
Jun 9, 2012, 7:49 am
#21
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Silicon Valley
Programs: UA GS, WN A-List, AA Exec Plat, National Emerald
Posts: 1,020
1. Lack of support for GS customers on the plane. (No more GS Concierges boarding the flight; no more guaranteed meal choice)
2. No more ability to buy United Club membership with miles. (I know they claim it's "temporary" but it seems like a gimmick to sell credit cards)
3. Boarding process is a mess. Give time for GS and F to board. There are so many "priority access" travelers, and they all stampede at the gate. Make sure they clear a path for GS and F. Make sure there's room for a GS to board at "any time" even after the other boarding groups have started
2. No more ability to buy United Club membership with miles. (I know they claim it's "temporary" but it seems like a gimmick to sell credit cards)
3. Boarding process is a mess. Give time for GS and F to board. There are so many "priority access" travelers, and they all stampede at the gate. Make sure they clear a path for GS and F. Make sure there's room for a GS to board at "any time" even after the other boarding groups have started
Jun 9, 2012, 7:50 am
#22
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,172
Originally Posted by Thunderroad;187262071.
Abolish SHARES and revert to UA's previous reservation system. Otherwise whatever we advocate or UA does is just a patch job on a bald, shredding tire
2. Clear, transparent upgrade policy (and results).
3. End of TODs.
4. Ending the restrictions that (apparently) SHARES imposes on what can be done with reservations, upgrade requests, etc. within 24 hours of flight.
5. GPUs expire when 1K status does, the end of January each year.
6. RPUs accrue at old rate of 2 per 10K UA BIS miles per quarter.
7. International GPU/miles-copay upgrades from any fare class, not just W and higher.
8. No more Smisek pre-flight videos. (I know we don't want to make this personal, but this is a genuine drawback of flying UA and perhaps could be cast in non-personal terms.)
2. Clear, transparent upgrade policy (and results).
3. End of TODs.
4. Ending the restrictions that (apparently) SHARES imposes on what can be done with reservations, upgrade requests, etc. within 24 hours of flight.
5. GPUs expire when 1K status does, the end of January each year.
6. RPUs accrue at old rate of 2 per 10K UA BIS miles per quarter.
7. International GPU/miles-copay upgrades from any fare class, not just W and higher.
8. No more Smisek pre-flight videos. (I know we don't want to make this personal, but this is a genuine drawback of flying UA and perhaps could be cast in non-personal terms.)
IMO the RPU earning rules stink, and mainly exist to throw a tiny incentive to PMCO Plats. Tying the requirements to UA metal actually incent you to fly the airline...what a concept.
Jun 9, 2012, 8:32 am
#24
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: UA Premier Gold, Starwood Gold, Plat AE, CO PP MC, Marriott Rewards Plat, Virgin Elevate Gold
Posts: 1,416
Jun 9, 2012, 8:48 am
#25
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: 1K MMiler, Hertz 5*
Posts: 589
The problem as I see it is that every level of UA flyers mostly wants to see different changes to the system.Perhaps we need some form of weighted poll to assist us in defining the changes we want to see. Whilst the Silvers may be more interested in gaining immediate E + access a GS has more of an interest in changing other areas of the new program.
If we were to poll for the changes perhaps a GS should carry say 3 times the weighting of say a 1K's concerns and perhaps 10 times the weighting of a Silver. If just poll on numbers with out looking at the level of the flyer I would imagine we will end up with a list of concerns that are weighted towards what a Silver wants as opposed to a GS simply because there are so many more Silvers in the system.
If we were to poll for the changes perhaps a GS should carry say 3 times the weighting of say a 1K's concerns and perhaps 10 times the weighting of a Silver. If just poll on numbers with out looking at the level of the flyer I would imagine we will end up with a list of concerns that are weighted towards what a Silver wants as opposed to a GS simply because there are so many more Silvers in the system.
Jun 9, 2012, 9:15 am
#26
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,401
This really is a problem. As a GS my priorities run to the service I get and to making the supposed benefits more relevant/usable to me as a premium ticket buyer. On board meal choice for 1K (I will be back to that one day), boarding that works, GPUs that match the MP membership year, GPUs usable on Z fares (even if restricted to n days out from flight), and fixing upgrades so I actually get CPUs on short hauls when I do book economy. At the same time I understand why a Gold wants RDM bonus fixed, etc. I am doubtful that a consolidated list can be created as a consensus. Perhaps you might try to see what the list would look like by group - i.e., generate a list for each of Silver, Gold, Plt, 1K, GS - and then see where there is overlap.
Jun 9, 2012, 9:29 am
#28
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: 1K MMiler, Hertz 5*
Posts: 589
This really is a problem. As a GS my priorities run to the service I get and to making the supposed benefits more relevant/usable to me as a premium ticket buyer. On board meal choice for 1K (I will be back to that one day), boarding that works, GPUs that match the MP membership year, GPUs usable on Z fares (even if restricted to n days out from flight), and fixing upgrades so I actually get CPUs on short hauls when I do book economy. At the same time I understand why a Gold wants RDM bonus fixed, etc. I am doubtful that a consolidated list can be created as a consensus. Perhaps you might try to see what the list would look like by group - i.e., generate a list for each of Silver, Gold, Plt, 1K, GS - and then see where there is overlap.
Jun 9, 2012, 9:43 am
#29
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Mry
Programs: UA silver (soft landing from 1K), AA plat, HHonors gold, Ambassador club, DC
Posts: 92
The problem as I see it is that every level of UA flyers mostly wants to see different changes to the system.Perhaps we need some form of weighted poll to assist us in defining the changes we want to see. Whilst the Silvers may be more interested in gaining immediate E + access a GS has more of an interest in changing other areas of the new program.
If we were to poll for the changes perhaps a GS should carry say 3 times the weighting of say a 1K's concerns and perhaps 10 times the weighting of a Silver. If just poll on numbers with out looking at the level of the flyer I would imagine we will end up with a list of concerns that are weighted towards what a Silver wants as opposed to a GS simply because there are so many more Silvers in the system.
If we were to poll for the changes perhaps a GS should carry say 3 times the weighting of say a 1K's concerns and perhaps 10 times the weighting of a Silver. If just poll on numbers with out looking at the level of the flyer I would imagine we will end up with a list of concerns that are weighted towards what a Silver wants as opposed to a GS simply because there are so many more Silvers in the system.
Although there are are a lot more 1k's who are active on FT and post in the UA section. A poll on FT will likely be naturally weighted towards the higher elites I thhink. As a Premier Gold I mostly read what the more experienced folks are writing and participate less so as not to look too foolish.
The level of the elite flyer makes a big difference in what one likes or dislikes about the new United. I think the silvers got screwed the most by losing E+ at booking, since this is a huge perk for that level. As a lower level elite, I liked the idea of lower cost (not TOD's though) F upgrades (as long as they are offered to elites and not just GM's/kettles), since I almost never get CPU's. This year I will be 1K, so my level of "entitlement" will change, and I won't like this any more as I will have to pay for something I could have gotten for free.
Jun 9, 2012, 9:45 am
#30
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: 2012 Plat-2013 Plat-2014 Silver-2015 GM
Posts: 818
How about not letting the system split PNR's? It requires a phone call to fix.
Example, I made reservations for me and business partner this week. I make the reservation when we fly United, he makes the reservation when we fly AA. Both are Gold on our respective airlines. On the outbound we both got a CPU. The PNR got split. On the return, I got notified of a CPU clearing, but not my biz partner because of the outbound PNR split. Had to call to get him upgraded. Had the PNR stayed together, his upgrade would have been automatic. As it was, 3 empty F seats on the trip.
Funny enough though, when I did call, I got an agent in 20 seconds. Told him the story and his response was, "I have been instructed to do the right thing". That comment made me feel encouraged they are going to make an effort to put this thing back together.
Example, I made reservations for me and business partner this week. I make the reservation when we fly United, he makes the reservation when we fly AA. Both are Gold on our respective airlines. On the outbound we both got a CPU. The PNR got split. On the return, I got notified of a CPU clearing, but not my biz partner because of the outbound PNR split. Had to call to get him upgraded. Had the PNR stayed together, his upgrade would have been automatic. As it was, 3 empty F seats on the trip.
Funny enough though, when I did call, I got an agent in 20 seconds. Told him the story and his response was, "I have been instructed to do the right thing". That comment made me feel encouraged they are going to make an effort to put this thing back together.