Process to create top UA FF concerns
Jun 19, 2012, 12:42 am
#76
Moderator: United Airlines
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.997MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,861
OP back (finally) – posting of new items has stopped, so time to try to figure out next steps. As stated in the OP, the intent of this post is to be if there is any consensus on what we should try to campaign UA to restore in changed / lost elite benefits.
It seems unlikely we will find just one or two items for everyone to support and especially for all elite levels.
Base on inputs, certain items are specific to certain elite levels and some for all
Silver
Gold/plat
1K/GS
ALL
Suggestions on how to narrow this?
FT’s polling facility is pretty limited. Looked into some external polling sites but no sure we can get folks to leave FT to do a poll and not sure a as beginner I could create the needed poll.
Constructive thoughts (on how to come to a consensus)?
It seems unlikely we will find just one or two items for everyone to support and especially for all elite levels.
Base on inputs, certain items are specific to certain elite levels and some for all
Silver
- Silver losing E+ access at booking
- Restore Silver bag allowance (2x50) (or better)
Gold/plat
- Reduction in RDM bonus for Plat (75%) and Gold (50%)
1K/GS
- Four non-fare limited GPUs replaced with six fare limited GPUs (or better yet go for six non-fare restricted)
- GPUs posting at earning vs end of the year (or better yet post at earning and expire at end of elite year)
- Loss of FlexEQMs for higher than Plat status
- Change in regional earning (2/qtr to 2 @75K+2 more per 25K)
ALL
- Reduction in MM benefits (Annual regionals/GPU, RDM bonus, Lifetime UC for 2MM, …) we can narrow down this into sub-pieces if need be later)
- Boarding Process (no dedicated line for Gold & higher)
- Empowered elite phone agents (able to act without supervisor involvement)
- Publish / fix CPU priority & TOD "reform" see post #12
- Return to e500s vs CPU
- Change in method for meal choice priority (front to back except GS vs Stars approach based on status/paid)
- No issue is worth pursuing
Suggestions on how to narrow this?
FT’s polling facility is pretty limited. Looked into some external polling sites but no sure we can get folks to leave FT to do a poll and not sure a as beginner I could create the needed poll.
Constructive thoughts (on how to come to a consensus)?
Jun 19, 2012, 1:01 am
#77
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
It's a great idea-- but I think we ought to work on some sort of consensus first. Let's get everyone's concerns and then poll for how we want to prioritize. Perhaps the shell could be put together, but until we know how we want to populate it we don't really have anything to go live with.
As for coming up with a framework-- I can help with that, UG, if you like. Was an Information Architect before I moved into managing build projects.
As for coming up with a framework-- I can help with that, UG, if you like. Was an Information Architect before I moved into managing build projects.
UG
OP back (finally) – posting of new items has stopped, so time to try to figure out next steps. As stated in the OP, the intent of this post is to be if there is any consensus on what we should try to campaign UA to restore in changed / lost elite benefits.
It seems unlikely we will find just one or two items for everyone to support and especially for all elite levels.
Base on inputs, certain items are specific to certain elite levels and some for all
Silver
Gold/plat
1K/GS
ALL
Suggestions on how to narrow this?
FT’s polling facility is pretty limited. Looked into some external polling sites but no sure we can get folks to leave FT to do a poll and not sure a as beginner I could create the needed poll.
Constructive thoughts (on how to come to a consensus)?
It seems unlikely we will find just one or two items for everyone to support and especially for all elite levels.
Base on inputs, certain items are specific to certain elite levels and some for all
Silver
- Silver losing E+ access at booking
- Restore Silver bag allowance (2x50) (or better)
Gold/plat
- Reduction in RDM bonus for Plat (75%) and Gold (50%)
1K/GS
- Four non-fare limited GPUs replaced with six fare limited GPUs (or better yet go for six non-fare restricted)
- GPUs posting at earning vs end of the year (or better yet post at earning and expire at end of elite year)
- Loss of FlexEQMs for higher than Plat status
- Change in regional earning (2/qtr to 2 @75K+2 more per 25K)
ALL
- Reduction in MM benefits (Annual regionals/GPU, RDM bonus, Lifetime UC for 2MM, …) we can narrow down this into sub-pieces if need be later)
- Boarding Process (no dedicated line for Gold & higher)
- Empowered elite phone agents (able to act without supervisor involvement)
- Publish / fix CPU priority & TOD "reform" see post #12
- Return to e500s vs CPU
- Change in method for meal choice priority (front to back except GS vs Stars approach based on status/paid)
- No issue is worth pursuing
Suggestions on how to narrow this?
FT’s polling facility is pretty limited. Looked into some external polling sites but no sure we can get folks to leave FT to do a poll and not sure a as beginner I could create the needed poll.
Constructive thoughts (on how to come to a consensus)?
Very well done Dear Sir!
Last edited by iluv2fly; Jun 19, 2012 at 7:01 am Reason: merge
Jun 19, 2012, 1:24 am
#78
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
1) Upgrades. Fix/Build a simpler system for managing upgrades, waitlists and buy-ups.
b) Waitlists. Make a SINGLE list, sort the list exactly as you state you will sort it - and clear people in that order. Run that process until X minutes before departure, then move that list EXACTLY AS IT IS into a gate-run list (that before that time IS EMPTY) and let the gate agents run the list from there. RPU, CPU, GPU, miles, whatever - same list - same sort order. When upgrade inventory goes from 0 to >0, immediately trigger waitlist clearing. The 24 hour problem, the multiple segments problem, the CPU v instrument priority problem on airport lists - these all can be fixed by NOT handling these all differently. Same list. Same order. Clear process.
c) TODs. Publish TOD upgrade policy and integrate it with the system - if the policy is to make TOD upgrades available inside of 24 hours whenever F inventory exceeds the number of revenue pax on the waitlist, then say that and include a disclaimer that if F=8, WL=6 and you sell 2 upgrades and then someone buys an F seat that one elite will end up not getting upgraded, even though an upgrade was sold to a non-elite. It would obviously be best for elites if UA only sold upgrades if R>0 (in my world that would mean no rev pax were on the waitlist inside of 24 hours), but I understand that might be impractical. The best possible suggestion would be to offer TOD waitlisting, meaning that all pax get the offer to buy up to a fare that would allow immediate clearing (YMBPZAF) depending on current availability, or the option for non-status pax to waitlist for an upgrade, on a FIFO basis, for whatever price they want to charge to fill empty seats – either collect the money and refund it quickly or authorize the charge, but only actually charge it at the gate if the upgrade clears after all status pax have been upgraded.
b) Waitlists. Make a SINGLE list, sort the list exactly as you state you will sort it - and clear people in that order. Run that process until X minutes before departure, then move that list EXACTLY AS IT IS into a gate-run list (that before that time IS EMPTY) and let the gate agents run the list from there. RPU, CPU, GPU, miles, whatever - same list - same sort order. When upgrade inventory goes from 0 to >0, immediately trigger waitlist clearing. The 24 hour problem, the multiple segments problem, the CPU v instrument priority problem on airport lists - these all can be fixed by NOT handling these all differently. Same list. Same order. Clear process.
c) TODs. Publish TOD upgrade policy and integrate it with the system - if the policy is to make TOD upgrades available inside of 24 hours whenever F inventory exceeds the number of revenue pax on the waitlist, then say that and include a disclaimer that if F=8, WL=6 and you sell 2 upgrades and then someone buys an F seat that one elite will end up not getting upgraded, even though an upgrade was sold to a non-elite. It would obviously be best for elites if UA only sold upgrades if R>0 (in my world that would mean no rev pax were on the waitlist inside of 24 hours), but I understand that might be impractical. The best possible suggestion would be to offer TOD waitlisting, meaning that all pax get the offer to buy up to a fare that would allow immediate clearing (YMBPZAF) depending on current availability, or the option for non-status pax to waitlist for an upgrade, on a FIFO basis, for whatever price they want to charge to fill empty seats – either collect the money and refund it quickly or authorize the charge, but only actually charge it at the gate if the upgrade clears after all status pax have been upgraded.
If it's not too late, I'd second the above recommendations. I'd also urge an end to the ridiculous practice of people paying in advance for the co-pay parts of miles+co-pay requests that are wait-listed.
Jun 19, 2012, 1:40 am
#79
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: 2012 Plat-2013 Plat-2014 Silver-2015 GM
Posts: 818
OP back (finally) – posting of new items has stopped, so time to try to figure out next steps. As stated in the OP, the intent of this post is to be if there is any consensus on what we should try to campaign UA to restore in changed / lost elite benefits.
It seems unlikely we will find just one or two items for everyone to support and especially for all elite levels.
Base on inputs, certain items are specific to certain elite levels and some for all
Silver
Gold/plat
1K/GS
ALL
Suggestions on how to narrow this?
FT’s polling facility is pretty limited. Looked into some external polling sites but no sure we can get folks to leave FT to do a poll and not sure a as beginner I could create the needed poll.
Constructive thoughts (on how to come to a consensus)?
It seems unlikely we will find just one or two items for everyone to support and especially for all elite levels.
Base on inputs, certain items are specific to certain elite levels and some for all
Silver
- Silver losing E+ access at booking
- Restore Silver bag allowance (2x50) (or better)
Gold/plat
- Reduction in RDM bonus for Plat (75%) and Gold (50%)
1K/GS
- Four non-fare limited GPUs replaced with six fare limited GPUs (or better yet go for six non-fare restricted)
- GPUs posting at earning vs end of the year (or better yet post at earning and expire at end of elite year)
- Loss of FlexEQMs for higher than Plat status
- Change in regional earning (2/qtr to 2 @75K+2 more per 25K)
ALL
- Reduction in MM benefits (Annual regionals/GPU, RDM bonus, Lifetime UC for 2MM, …) we can narrow down this into sub-pieces if need be later)
- Boarding Process (no dedicated line for Gold & higher)
- Empowered elite phone agents (able to act without supervisor involvement)
- Publish / fix CPU priority & TOD "reform" see post #12
- Return to e500s vs CPU
- Change in method for meal choice priority (front to back except GS vs Stars approach based on status/paid)
- No issue is worth pursuing
Suggestions on how to narrow this?
FT’s polling facility is pretty limited. Looked into some external polling sites but no sure we can get folks to leave FT to do a poll and not sure a as beginner I could create the needed poll.
Constructive thoughts (on how to come to a consensus)?
Jun 19, 2012, 6:29 am
#81
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NYC and London
Programs: UA 1K; Avis Preferred; PriorityClub Gold; nada anywhere else
Posts: 243
WineCountryUA, nice work! I agree with Thunderroad that we should add the advance fee for the SWU upgrade lottery to the list for 1Ks.
Jun 19, 2012, 2:23 pm
#82
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
OP back (finally) – posting of new items has stopped, so time to try to figure out next steps. As stated in the OP, the intent of this post is to be if there is any consensus on what we should try to campaign UA to restore in changed / lost elite benefits.
It seems unlikely we will find just one or two items for everyone to support and especially for all elite levels.
Base on inputs, certain items are specific to certain elite levels and some for all
Silver
Gold/plat
1K/GS
ALL
Suggestions on how to narrow this?
FT’s polling facility is pretty limited. Looked into some external polling sites but no sure we can get folks to leave FT to do a poll and not sure a as beginner I could create the needed poll.
Constructive thoughts (on how to come to a consensus)?
It seems unlikely we will find just one or two items for everyone to support and especially for all elite levels.
Base on inputs, certain items are specific to certain elite levels and some for all
Silver
- Silver losing E+ access at booking
- Restore Silver bag allowance (2x50) (or better)
Gold/plat
- Reduction in RDM bonus for Plat (75%) and Gold (50%)
1K/GS
- Four non-fare limited GPUs replaced with six fare limited GPUs (or better yet go for six non-fare restricted)
- GPUs posting at earning vs end of the year (or better yet post at earning and expire at end of elite year)
- Loss of FlexEQMs for higher than Plat status
- Change in regional earning (2/qtr to 2 @75K+2 more per 25K)
ALL
- Reduction in MM benefits (Annual regionals/GPU, RDM bonus, Lifetime UC for 2MM, …) we can narrow down this into sub-pieces if need be later)
- Boarding Process (no dedicated line for Gold & higher)
- Empowered elite phone agents (able to act without supervisor involvement)
- Publish / fix CPU priority & TOD "reform" see post #12
- Return to e500s vs CPU
- Change in method for meal choice priority (front to back except GS vs Stars approach based on status/paid)
- No issue is worth pursuing
Suggestions on how to narrow this?
FT’s polling facility is pretty limited. Looked into some external polling sites but no sure we can get folks to leave FT to do a poll and not sure a as beginner I could create the needed poll.
Constructive thoughts (on how to come to a consensus)?
Two points:
1. I think CPU and TOD should be separated. The issue of selling TOD's impacts both people on the CPU list but also impacts people trying to UG with instruments (RPU, GPU, Miles). By grouping these together, I think some of the issues are hidden. So, I'd suggest one item for the CPU process and a separate item for TOD process and how it relates with members trying to upgrade by CPU or with instrument. Also, I wonder if the TOD/GPU issue is not something that belongs under 1K since only 1K's earn GPUs. While a lot of people might rightly be upset that they can't clear CPU because of TOD, 1K's would be uniquely upset that they can't clear GPU because of TOD and that's arguably a more important issue since GPUs are paid for with 100,000 BIS or EQM equivalent whereas CPU is a flawed process that has so many other problems (to your point, where it might make sense to replace it with e500). Also, besides the fact that TODs make it hard to UG by CPU or with instrument, there is also the widely reported issue of people who cannot UG with instrument b/c SHARES problems prevent them from being added to the list or b/c they don't clear even when they are on the list and R space is open. I'm concerned that there might be a better way to segment out these UG issues and align with specific actions we'd want COdbaUA to take.
2. Unclear on "Four non-fare limited GPUs replaced with six fare limited GPUs (or better yet go for six non-fare restricted)" - as long as I can remember, we always got 6 fare limited GPUs. Are you saying there is a desire to replace those with 4 non-fare limited GPUs? This seems like an entirely new concept?
I agree best way to get consensus is to organize these into a survey like SurveyMonkey and count the number of votes for each one. Suggest each respondent provide their status level.
Jun 19, 2012, 2:36 pm
#83
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: 2012 Plat-2013 Plat-2014 Silver-2015 GM
Posts: 818
Winecountry, thanks for your work on this.
Two points:
1. I think CPU and TOD should be separated. The issue of selling TOD's impacts both people on the CPU list but also impacts people trying to UG with instruments (RPU, GPU, Miles). By grouping these together, I think some of the issues are hidden. So, I'd suggest one item for the CPU process and a separate item for TOD process and how it relates with members trying to upgrade by CPU or with instrument. Also, I wonder if the TOD/GPU issue is not something that belongs under 1K since only 1K's earn GPUs. While a lot of people might rightly be upset that they can't clear CPU because of TOD, 1K's would be uniquely upset that they can't clear GPU because of TOD and that's arguably a more important issue since GPUs are paid for with 100,000 BIS or EQM equivalent whereas CPU is a flawed process that has so many other problems (to your point, where it might make sense to replace it with e500). Also, besides the fact that TODs make it hard to UG by CPU or with instrument, there is also the widely reported issue of people who cannot UG with instrument b/c SHARES problems prevent them from being added to the list or b/c they don't clear even when they are on the list and R space is open. I'm concerned that there might be a better way to segment out these UG issues and align with specific actions we'd want COdbaUA to take.
2. Unclear on "Four non-fare limited GPUs replaced with six fare limited GPUs (or better yet go for six non-fare restricted)" - as long as I can remember, we always got 6 fare limited GPUs. Are you saying there is a desire to replace those with 4 non-fare limited GPUs? This seems like an entirely new concept?
I agree best way to get consensus is to organize these into a survey like SurveyMonkey and count the number of votes for each one. Suggest each respondent provide their status level.
Two points:
1. I think CPU and TOD should be separated. The issue of selling TOD's impacts both people on the CPU list but also impacts people trying to UG with instruments (RPU, GPU, Miles). By grouping these together, I think some of the issues are hidden. So, I'd suggest one item for the CPU process and a separate item for TOD process and how it relates with members trying to upgrade by CPU or with instrument. Also, I wonder if the TOD/GPU issue is not something that belongs under 1K since only 1K's earn GPUs. While a lot of people might rightly be upset that they can't clear CPU because of TOD, 1K's would be uniquely upset that they can't clear GPU because of TOD and that's arguably a more important issue since GPUs are paid for with 100,000 BIS or EQM equivalent whereas CPU is a flawed process that has so many other problems (to your point, where it might make sense to replace it with e500). Also, besides the fact that TODs make it hard to UG by CPU or with instrument, there is also the widely reported issue of people who cannot UG with instrument b/c SHARES problems prevent them from being added to the list or b/c they don't clear even when they are on the list and R space is open. I'm concerned that there might be a better way to segment out these UG issues and align with specific actions we'd want COdbaUA to take.
2. Unclear on "Four non-fare limited GPUs replaced with six fare limited GPUs (or better yet go for six non-fare restricted)" - as long as I can remember, we always got 6 fare limited GPUs. Are you saying there is a desire to replace those with 4 non-fare limited GPUs? This seems like an entirely new concept?
I agree best way to get consensus is to organize these into a survey like SurveyMonkey and count the number of votes for each one. Suggest each respondent provide their status level.
Jun 19, 2012, 10:48 pm
#84
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
OP back (finally) – posting of new items has stopped, so time to try to figure out next steps. As stated in the OP, the intent of this post is to be if there is any consensus on what we should try to campaign UA to restore in changed / lost elite benefits.
It seems unlikely we will find just one or two items for everyone to support and especially for all elite levels.
Base on inputs, certain items are specific to certain elite levels and some for all
Silver
Gold/plat
1K/GS
ALL
Suggestions on how to narrow this?
FT’s polling facility is pretty limited. Looked into some external polling sites but no sure we can get folks to leave FT to do a poll and not sure a as beginner I could create the needed poll.
Constructive thoughts (on how to come to a consensus)?
It seems unlikely we will find just one or two items for everyone to support and especially for all elite levels.
Base on inputs, certain items are specific to certain elite levels and some for all
Silver
- Silver losing E+ access at booking
- Restore Silver bag allowance (2x50) (or better)
Gold/plat
- Reduction in RDM bonus for Plat (75%) and Gold (50%)
1K/GS
- Four non-fare limited GPUs replaced with six fare limited GPUs (or better yet go for six non-fare restricted)
- GPUs posting at earning vs end of the year (or better yet post at earning and expire at end of elite year)
- Loss of FlexEQMs for higher than Plat status
- Change in regional earning (2/qtr to 2 @75K+2 more per 25K)
ALL
- Reduction in MM benefits (Annual regionals/GPU, RDM bonus, Lifetime UC for 2MM, …) we can narrow down this into sub-pieces if need be later)
- Boarding Process (no dedicated line for Gold & higher)
- Empowered elite phone agents (able to act without supervisor involvement)
- Publish / fix CPU priority & TOD "reform" see post #12
- Return to e500s vs CPU
- Change in method for meal choice priority (front to back except GS vs Stars approach based on status/paid)
- No issue is worth pursuing
Suggestions on how to narrow this?
FT’s polling facility is pretty limited. Looked into some external polling sites but no sure we can get folks to leave FT to do a poll and not sure a as beginner I could create the needed poll.
Constructive thoughts (on how to come to a consensus)?
1. Waitlist not clearing with GPU/RPU while 1K's sit on the list and meanwhile the seats are sold for "TOD" to anyone who will pay at constantly dropping price. Action - do what UA Insider said it's supposed to do - no TOD offers until all on waitlist are accommodated first and all offers should be at fare differential to M/Y, not cheaper, particularly unless those on WL accommodated first.
2. Waitlist not clearing with GPU/RPU/Miles when R space is open. Action - Fix it.
3. Check in for flight and not added to the second T-24 waitlist. Action - Fix it.
4. When TODs are offered, make them available to everyone on the plane, not just those that SHARES deems worthy.
Jun 19, 2012, 11:45 pm
#85
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Programs: DL Platinum, AA Lifetime Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Radisson Premium
Posts: 6,638
Aside from the elite program issues/bugs/loyalty reducers, something thats' really been annoying me lately is delays in aircraft arrival and the amount of time it takes to get plane off the ground.
Whatever they're doing post-3/3 has seriously dented the on-time rate. Nothing compared to the way United exceled in on-time arrivals in 2009 and 2010.
Whatever they're doing post-3/3 has seriously dented the on-time rate. Nothing compared to the way United exceled in on-time arrivals in 2009 and 2010.
Jun 20, 2012, 12:00 am
#86
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: MEX
Programs: Fallen UA Premier Silver and one-time 1K, AA EXP, DL steerage
Posts: 355