Process to create top UA FF concerns
Jun 9, 2012, 1:12 pm
#46
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ORF
Posts: 1,740
Jun 9, 2012, 1:29 pm
#47
Moderator: United Airlines
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.997MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,861
Jun 9, 2012, 2:41 pm
#48
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 286
I had actually typed this into my prior posts on policy vs. problem issues before deleting due to length. How can you have to explain to a 1k desk agent how a RPU works? For me, this is a pain point above any straight up explicit United policy.
Jun 9, 2012, 3:06 pm
#49
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
I would love to bring together the MMU site and a "United Flyers United" site like what Delta did and their "Save Delta Miles" - one site dedicated to all the United Flyers, whether they are 1K, MM or Premier.
Let me know and I can have it set up ASAP.
Yours, UG
Let me know and I can have it set up ASAP.
Yours, UG
Jun 9, 2012, 4:25 pm
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
While I always thought the quality of the CSRs at the 1K line was spotty prior to the merger, with the introduction of a pretty meaningless "premium" lilne the service has gone way downhill.
OTOH, is it too much to ask that ALL CSRs be at least minimally competent and empowered? No reason at all why competence should be reserved for those helping 1Ks and Gss.
Jun 9, 2012, 4:51 pm
#51
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 156
Times are a changing
For me loss of E+ at ticketing took me from always pursing at least Silver for the past 10 years to now just getting on any airline that offers me the best match for my specific travel needs. I have become indifferent.
Self funded, my travel budget is between E+ and domestic F, depending on fare. I just now buy into what I want. *A Miles are earned via VISA, and every couple years this means C or F international. I could be 1,000 EQMs short of Silver and wouldn't alter travel plans to reach 2P, much less consider a mileage run.
The pendulum of elite perks have swung, and a-la-carte is now the new way, apparently. Like many here, I miss the old MP program where even as a 2P I got great benefits traveling around the world, used e500 certs to get the occasional F, but have now slowly grown to accept the new reality where I just throw more money at a problem to get into E+ or F cabins.
This NYTimes article pretty much sums it up:
http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/06/10...671FC74E35AC6D
It's a new world order, frankly I feel for serious road warriors, travel is very hard now, and the balance is only going further against frequent travelers as airlines cut elite service levels in exchange for a la carte incremental revenue.
Self funded, my travel budget is between E+ and domestic F, depending on fare. I just now buy into what I want. *A Miles are earned via VISA, and every couple years this means C or F international. I could be 1,000 EQMs short of Silver and wouldn't alter travel plans to reach 2P, much less consider a mileage run.
The pendulum of elite perks have swung, and a-la-carte is now the new way, apparently. Like many here, I miss the old MP program where even as a 2P I got great benefits traveling around the world, used e500 certs to get the occasional F, but have now slowly grown to accept the new reality where I just throw more money at a problem to get into E+ or F cabins.
This NYTimes article pretty much sums it up:
http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/06/10...671FC74E35AC6D
It's a new world order, frankly I feel for serious road warriors, travel is very hard now, and the balance is only going further against frequent travelers as airlines cut elite service levels in exchange for a la carte incremental revenue.
Jun 9, 2012, 5:05 pm
#52
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 286
Agree, however I also expect 1K and GS agents to have competence and empowerment for the privileges that those levels get. I'll forgive a general GA insisting for a bit that some fee isn't waived that is, but I'll be much more annoyed getting that out of the 1K line.
Jun 9, 2012, 5:13 pm
#53
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ORF
Posts: 1,740
Jun 9, 2012, 11:40 pm
#54
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: 2012 Plat-2013 Plat-2014 Silver-2015 GM
Posts: 818
As I stated in another post, I got a Premier Desk agent this week who said "they were instructed to do the right thing" to fix problems. He fixed my issue, PNR split, but let's see how far it goes and lasts.
Jun 9, 2012, 11:58 pm
#55
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
For me, the single most important issue is inability to upgrade.
There are several sub-parts to this.
The most important sub-part for me is the fact that you can't use an RPU or GPU to upgrade if R space is unavailable at time of booking unless you are exceptionally lucky. Most of the time, it won't upgrade, or it will be trumped by someone buying up with a TOD.
This needs to get fixed. It should be done following the "policy" that Shannon posted after 3/3. That is, if there is an open seat, it should be given to the flyer on the waitlist with a GPU/RPU or $/miles request. That should be done consistently based on the usual rules of status, fare class, time of booking.
And, no TODs should be offered to anyone unless all elite flyers on the wait list have first been given upgrades.
There is nothing new here. This is how it used to work. This is how Shannon says it still works, though it's clear that was a lie.
I just want to be able to UG with an instrument (GPU/RPU/miles) in a predictable and dependable and fair way using the rules/process that have always been in place and that UA has said are in place now, but we know are not in place.
There are a bunch of other specific problems and other UG cases that are important but I'd be happy to focus on this specific one.
There are several sub-parts to this.
The most important sub-part for me is the fact that you can't use an RPU or GPU to upgrade if R space is unavailable at time of booking unless you are exceptionally lucky. Most of the time, it won't upgrade, or it will be trumped by someone buying up with a TOD.
This needs to get fixed. It should be done following the "policy" that Shannon posted after 3/3. That is, if there is an open seat, it should be given to the flyer on the waitlist with a GPU/RPU or $/miles request. That should be done consistently based on the usual rules of status, fare class, time of booking.
And, no TODs should be offered to anyone unless all elite flyers on the wait list have first been given upgrades.
There is nothing new here. This is how it used to work. This is how Shannon says it still works, though it's clear that was a lie.
I just want to be able to UG with an instrument (GPU/RPU/miles) in a predictable and dependable and fair way using the rules/process that have always been in place and that UA has said are in place now, but we know are not in place.
There are a bunch of other specific problems and other UG cases that are important but I'd be happy to focus on this specific one.
Jun 10, 2012, 12:01 am
#56
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
Everyone is petrified to do anything because all the customer service agents are micro-managed. Every "slide" given to a flyer is recorded and they are either reprimanded or told they can't do it anymore. Some employees are not allowed to do anything without a supervisor approval. Of the few I know who are left at United, up until 2007ish were told, "do whatever it takes to...." ready for it (drumroll) - "serve the customer." Perish the thought!
Now, everything is revenue-based, how to squeeze as much money from a single passenger - from the time between one pays for a ticket to the moment they complete the final segment and walk off the plane. Think about it, seating, upgrades, luggage, change fees, purchase food on board, etc.
UG
Now, everything is revenue-based, how to squeeze as much money from a single passenger - from the time between one pays for a ticket to the moment they complete the final segment and walk off the plane. Think about it, seating, upgrades, luggage, change fees, purchase food on board, etc.
UG
Jun 10, 2012, 12:26 am
#57
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Redwood City, CA USA (SFO/SJC)
Programs: 1K 2010, 1P in 2011, Plat for 2012,13,14,15 & 2016. Gold in 17 & 18, Plat since
Posts: 8,826
Make the system less scary
Seriously, the various concerns listed are valid, but for many, there's a feeling that it's just plain scary flying United these days. Not scary as in fearing for your life, but scary as in how things are going to go if things go wrong.
Back in the day, there was a reliable process for dealing with things like upgrades that had been pulled and not replaced when they didn't clear. You could send an email to 1KVoice or whichever was relevant, and it would be taken care of. You could call on the phone and not be in competition with people who have had nightmarish reservation issues, causing long times on hold.
Now? You really wonder if it's worth the hassle to try and get something relatively-small taken care of. It's like returning something to Frys Electronics. How much is your time worth? You start looking for alternatives.
We need to get back to a system that's, in general, not customer-hostile.
Back in the day, there was a reliable process for dealing with things like upgrades that had been pulled and not replaced when they didn't clear. You could send an email to 1KVoice or whichever was relevant, and it would be taken care of. You could call on the phone and not be in competition with people who have had nightmarish reservation issues, causing long times on hold.
Now? You really wonder if it's worth the hassle to try and get something relatively-small taken care of. It's like returning something to Frys Electronics. How much is your time worth? You start looking for alternatives.
We need to get back to a system that's, in general, not customer-hostile.
Jun 10, 2012, 1:46 am
#58
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: UA Plat
Posts: 754
The airline that is going to make me a FF is the one that makes flying easy, even in coach. No time to grab dinner during your dash between terminals at ORD? Relax, we will feed you a proper hot meal on the plane. Got special dietary restrictions? We got you covered with advanced meal selections. Worried about being able to stash that carry on (even if it is just a briefcase) in the overhead bin so that you can stretch out during the flight? Relax, we allow everyone two free checked bags, so there will be less carry on and lots of space. Since there is no need to be first on the plane to grab overhead space, why don't you stay in the lounge until just before the doors close, and enjoy that extra drink. We will make an announcement at final boarding. Didn't have time to power up your computer? Relax, we have power ports at every seat. Need to change your flight on the same day? We have a phone agent standing by that can do that for you in 5 minutes with no hold time. Traveling with your family of 4? We have you all seated together in E+. Want an extra glass of wine after dinner? Just push that call button and we'll be right there. Don't feel like farting around on .bomb for 3 hours trying to book that upgrabeable trip to SYD? No worries, give us a call and we'll get it done for you in minutes. Etc., etc.
Instead, air travel in coach is just so difficult, not to mention uncomfortable. Now I know that what I am asking for is going to raise the costs of a seat mile, but fine, let there be a single US airline out there that differentiates itself from the budget carriers. I will gladly pay the premium for the above experience. And I'll bet others would too.
The UA policy change I would like to see is a change from "Let's see how hard we can make flying for you" to "Let's see how easy we can make it." If there were tons of overhead space, who cares about who boards first? If coach had meals and drinks and powerports and decent service, there would be much less agony over where one is on the upgrade list at T-24 and whether some kettle with a mileage upgrade has jumped ahead of a 1k on the list. If they allowed everyone two checked bags, there wouldn't be this insane need to pull off mileage runs so that you get to 25K by Dec 31.
So here are my policy priorities
Full hot meal and drink service (included in ticket price) on all flights longer than 2 hours (could just do this for E+ since that will cater to FFs mainly)
Two free checked bags for each passenger
Rapid phone service with competent agents who can get things done quickly
Advanced seating for all FFs in E+, with accompanying seating for all family members residing at the same address (if there is not enough E+ to accomodate this change, make the section bigger)
An extra FA in coach to make on-call service possible
Final call boarding announcements in the lounge
Instead, air travel in coach is just so difficult, not to mention uncomfortable. Now I know that what I am asking for is going to raise the costs of a seat mile, but fine, let there be a single US airline out there that differentiates itself from the budget carriers. I will gladly pay the premium for the above experience. And I'll bet others would too.
The UA policy change I would like to see is a change from "Let's see how hard we can make flying for you" to "Let's see how easy we can make it." If there were tons of overhead space, who cares about who boards first? If coach had meals and drinks and powerports and decent service, there would be much less agony over where one is on the upgrade list at T-24 and whether some kettle with a mileage upgrade has jumped ahead of a 1k on the list. If they allowed everyone two checked bags, there wouldn't be this insane need to pull off mileage runs so that you get to 25K by Dec 31.
So here are my policy priorities
Full hot meal and drink service (included in ticket price) on all flights longer than 2 hours (could just do this for E+ since that will cater to FFs mainly)
Two free checked bags for each passenger
Rapid phone service with competent agents who can get things done quickly
Advanced seating for all FFs in E+, with accompanying seating for all family members residing at the same address (if there is not enough E+ to accomodate this change, make the section bigger)
An extra FA in coach to make on-call service possible
Final call boarding announcements in the lounge
Jun 10, 2012, 3:32 am
#59
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SYD
Programs: UA 1MM GS
Posts: 255
I'm sure I'm in a minority when I ask this:
* I'd like to know why there are no real incentives to push beyond 1K.
It hurts to be a 2.5k flyer on pretty much any airline. Why am I not valued more as a 2.5k-3k non-GS, but relatively high-spend flyer? The 4 GPUs per additional 1K is a poor incentive (compared to flying on another carrier to reach similar status).
Jun 10, 2012, 3:42 am
#60
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai / NYC
Programs: EK-IO, UA-1K2MM, ETIHAD-GOLD, SPG-PLAT LIFETIME, JUMEIRAH SERIUS GOLD
Posts: 5,220
The airline that is going to make me a FF is the one that makes flying easy, even in coach. No time to grab dinner during your dash between terminals at ORD? Relax, we will feed you a proper hot meal on the plane. Got special dietary restrictions? We got you covered with advanced meal selections. Worried about being able to stash that carry on (even if it is just a briefcase) in the overhead bin so that you can stretch out during the flight? Relax, we allow everyone two free checked bags, so there will be less carry on and lots of space. Since there is no need to be first on the plane to grab overhead space, why don't you stay in the lounge until just before the doors close, and enjoy that extra drink. We will make an announcement at final boarding. Didn't have time to power up your computer? Relax, we have power ports at every seat. Need to change your flight on the same day? We have a phone agent standing by that can do that for you in 5 minutes with no hold time. Traveling with your family of 4? We have you all seated together in E+. Want an extra glass of wine after dinner? Just push that call button and we'll be right there. Don't feel like farting around on .bomb for 3 hours trying to book that upgrabeable trip to SYD? No worries, give us a call and we'll get it done for you in minutes. Etc., etc.
Instead, air travel in coach is just so difficult, not to mention uncomfortable. Now I know that what I am asking for is going to raise the costs of a seat mile, but fine, let there be a single US airline out there that differentiates itself from the budget carriers. I will gladly pay the premium for the above experience. And I'll bet others would too.
The UA policy change I would like to see is a change from "Let's see how hard we can make flying for you" to "Let's see how easy we can make it." If there were tons of overhead space, who cares about who boards first? If coach had meals and drinks and powerports and decent service, there would be much less agony over where one is on the upgrade list at T-24 and whether some kettle with a mileage upgrade has jumped ahead of a 1k on the list. If they allowed everyone two checked bags, there wouldn't be this insane need to pull off mileage runs so that you get to 25K by Dec 31.
So here are my policy priorities
Full hot meal and drink service (included in ticket price) on all flights longer than 2 hours (could just do this for E+ since that will cater to FFs mainly)
Two free checked bags for each passenger
Rapid phone service with competent agents who can get things done quickly
Advanced seating for all FFs in E+, with accompanying seating for all family members residing at the same address (if there is not enough E+ to accomodate this change, make the section bigger)
An extra FA in coach to make on-call service possible
Final call boarding announcements in the lounge
Instead, air travel in coach is just so difficult, not to mention uncomfortable. Now I know that what I am asking for is going to raise the costs of a seat mile, but fine, let there be a single US airline out there that differentiates itself from the budget carriers. I will gladly pay the premium for the above experience. And I'll bet others would too.
The UA policy change I would like to see is a change from "Let's see how hard we can make flying for you" to "Let's see how easy we can make it." If there were tons of overhead space, who cares about who boards first? If coach had meals and drinks and powerports and decent service, there would be much less agony over where one is on the upgrade list at T-24 and whether some kettle with a mileage upgrade has jumped ahead of a 1k on the list. If they allowed everyone two checked bags, there wouldn't be this insane need to pull off mileage runs so that you get to 25K by Dec 31.
So here are my policy priorities
Full hot meal and drink service (included in ticket price) on all flights longer than 2 hours (could just do this for E+ since that will cater to FFs mainly)
Two free checked bags for each passenger
Rapid phone service with competent agents who can get things done quickly
Advanced seating for all FFs in E+, with accompanying seating for all family members residing at the same address (if there is not enough E+ to accomodate this change, make the section bigger)
An extra FA in coach to make on-call service possible
Final call boarding announcements in the lounge
Last edited by iluv2fly; Jun 10, 2012 at 10:44 am Reason: merge