Does United comply with the IATA interline Most Significant Carrier baggage fee rule?
May 3, 2014, 11:47 pm
#106
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 347
I booked an award Y ticket from UA for my nephew flying HKG to DEN via NRT (Fiirst leg HKG-NRT by ANA and the 2nd leg NRT-DEN by UA). My nephew has no status at all. It's obvious that the MSC is UA but my nephew is going to check in at ANA counter in HKG. UA award ticket says the first bag is free but the 2nd bag will cost him $100. If the MSC rules apply, it might save him $100 for the 2nd checked bags since UA allows 2 free bags. Anyone who has any idea about this situation?
Nov 9, 2014, 5:30 pm
#107
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 7
united airlines bag fee international flt..
gosh. united used to be a good airline. before merger . now they are ruthless.........two years ago I fly usa to Bangkok. and they try to charge e for second bag on des moines to Chicago leg , then I got on asiana rest of way to Bangkok.......I always thought if I was to fly a asiana ticket. yes the ticket was on asiana..........codeshare flight with united.............asiana ticket. united should honor the main carrier rules of two bags free.......police were called and I had to back down or not fly.........now this year they are doing it again. I think this is the only airline that if lets say u fly british airways .....and use an American flight to start flight,,,,,,,they, American don't charge for the second bag because its an british airways flight ticket.........only united is doing this. shame on them
Nov 9, 2014, 5:52 pm
#108
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
US law is really simple and has been the rule since January 2011.
The bag fee for the marketing carrier of the first segment is the bag fee for the entire ticket. Period. If a carrier chooses to give you a greater allowance, that is up to that carrier.
It is completely false that only UA is doing this.
The bag fee for the marketing carrier of the first segment is the bag fee for the entire ticket. Period. If a carrier chooses to give you a greater allowance, that is up to that carrier.
It is completely false that only UA is doing this.
Nov 9, 2014, 5:53 pm
#109
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 15,029
"...only united is doing this. shame on them..."
Sorry, you are completely misinformed. Try to get your stuff into only one bag and carry-on per person to avoid fees.
Sorry, you are completely misinformed. Try to get your stuff into only one bag and carry-on per person to avoid fees.
Last edited by IAH-OIL-TRASH; Nov 9, 2014 at 6:40 pm
Nov 9, 2014, 5:58 pm
#110
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: LHR (sometimes CLE, SFO, BOS, LAX, SEA)
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 5,895
There is in fact an internationally agreed-upon rule which airlines are supposed to use when computing what baggage fees you pay at various parts of an international journey.
This rule is called "IATA Resolution 302", with the caveat that flights which start in the U.S. or end in the U.S. instead follow a special set of US Department of Transportation overrides to the IATA resolution.
It sounds like you may want to read those rules and familiarize yourself with their provisions so you know what to expect when traveling internationally from the U.S. and can effectively advocate for what you are owed in the effect that a carrier offers you something worse than what they're contractually and legally required to do.
To summarize very briefly, under the special DOT rule that overrides IATA Resolution 302, the luggage rules of the most significant marketing carrier — the carrier whose flight number is assigned to the first international segment of this journey — are supposed to apply throughout the journey.
Under those rules,
(1) Suppose you buy a ticket DSM-ORD-ICN-BKK (a UA flight connecting to an OZ flight connecting to an OZ flight).
(2) Then the ORD-ICN sector is the first international trip.
(3) If this ORD-ICN segment carries a United flight number (whether or not it is operated by UA), then United is the most significant marketing carrier. Under international convention you should expect UA to apply the United Airlines baggage fees for travel USA-Southeast Asia at check in at DSM and you should expect those fees to be applied at every additional check-in point during the journey. In coach, the UA rules are one free bag US-Asia.
(4) If this ORD-ICN segment carries an Asiana flight number (whether or not it is operated by OZ), then Asiana is the most significant marketing carrier. Under international convention you should expect those fees to be applied at every additional check-in point during the journey.
(5) If this ORD-ICN segment carries a Lufthansa flight number (whether or not it is operated by LH), then Lufthansa is the most significant marketing carrier. Under international convention you should expect those fees to be applied at every additional check-in point during the journey.
(6) If this ORD-ICN segment carries a Thai Airways flight number (whether or not it is operated by TG), then Thai is the most significant marketing carrier. Under international convention you should expect those fees to be applied at every additional check-in point during the journey.
See some discussion of this rule at e.g. http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...arge-rule.html , https://hub.united.com/en-us/news/we...cked-bags.aspx
It is possible for an airline to be more generous than they are required to be by international convention, but you shouldn't expect it and shouldn't rely on being able to demand it. If an airline messes up and tries to mis-charge you a baggage fee which you are sure is wrong — i.e. you have read the relevant rules and understand them well — your best course of action is to escalate to one supervisor, then pay with a credit card and dispute the charge.
Take a look at ATPCO's advice on the subject, http://www.atpco.net/atpco/download/...gage_facts.pdf — I think fees are the fees of the marketing carrier of the first ex-USA flight, so on e.g. UA123 DSM-IAD + LH456 IAD-FRA, LH rules should be communicated and charged by UA.
This rule is called "IATA Resolution 302", with the caveat that flights which start in the U.S. or end in the U.S. instead follow a special set of US Department of Transportation overrides to the IATA resolution.
It sounds like you may want to read those rules and familiarize yourself with their provisions so you know what to expect when traveling internationally from the U.S. and can effectively advocate for what you are owed in the effect that a carrier offers you something worse than what they're contractually and legally required to do.
To summarize very briefly, under the special DOT rule that overrides IATA Resolution 302, the luggage rules of the most significant marketing carrier — the carrier whose flight number is assigned to the first international segment of this journey — are supposed to apply throughout the journey.
Under those rules,
(1) Suppose you buy a ticket DSM-ORD-ICN-BKK (a UA flight connecting to an OZ flight connecting to an OZ flight).
(2) Then the ORD-ICN sector is the first international trip.
(3) If this ORD-ICN segment carries a United flight number (whether or not it is operated by UA), then United is the most significant marketing carrier. Under international convention you should expect UA to apply the United Airlines baggage fees for travel USA-Southeast Asia at check in at DSM and you should expect those fees to be applied at every additional check-in point during the journey. In coach, the UA rules are one free bag US-Asia.
(4) If this ORD-ICN segment carries an Asiana flight number (whether or not it is operated by OZ), then Asiana is the most significant marketing carrier. Under international convention you should expect those fees to be applied at every additional check-in point during the journey.
(5) If this ORD-ICN segment carries a Lufthansa flight number (whether or not it is operated by LH), then Lufthansa is the most significant marketing carrier. Under international convention you should expect those fees to be applied at every additional check-in point during the journey.
(6) If this ORD-ICN segment carries a Thai Airways flight number (whether or not it is operated by TG), then Thai is the most significant marketing carrier. Under international convention you should expect those fees to be applied at every additional check-in point during the journey.
See some discussion of this rule at e.g. http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...arge-rule.html , https://hub.united.com/en-us/news/we...cked-bags.aspx
It is possible for an airline to be more generous than they are required to be by international convention, but you shouldn't expect it and shouldn't rely on being able to demand it. If an airline messes up and tries to mis-charge you a baggage fee which you are sure is wrong — i.e. you have read the relevant rules and understand them well — your best course of action is to escalate to one supervisor, then pay with a credit card and dispute the charge.
Taking into consideration the US DOT baggage and tariff regulations, as well as IATA Resolution 302,
airlines and pricing and departure control systems should make sure
• The first marketing carrier on a flight provides the passenger with baggage allowance and
charges information for the entire journey
• The MSC rules are applied to the journey, and in order to comply with tariff filing requirements,
the MSC must be the marketing carrier to/from the United States
• Baggage allowance and charges for the outbound direction apply for the entire journey
airlines and pricing and departure control systems should make sure
• The first marketing carrier on a flight provides the passenger with baggage allowance and
charges information for the entire journey
• The MSC rules are applied to the journey, and in order to comply with tariff filing requirements,
the MSC must be the marketing carrier to/from the United States
• Baggage allowance and charges for the outbound direction apply for the entire journey
Nov 10, 2014, 2:12 am
#111
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HaMerkaz/Exit 145
Programs: UA, LY, BA, AA
Posts: 13,167
You specifically mention AA/BA. AA/BA have a specific relationship which starts with BA's generous policy that is more than the law/rule requires and more than any other airline offers. In essence, BA looks at the maximum possible allowance that any 1 segment offers you on your entire booking (both directions, not just that journey), and offers that allowance for your entire booking.
So if you were booked ORD-LHR-DUS and then DUS-LCY, and then LHR-ORD (completely made-up itin) where every single segment is in discounted Y and you have no status - EXCEPT DUS-LCY is in Club Europe (C). In that case, your allowance for the entire journey would be 2X32 kg and not 1X23, even on the outbound.
Then, BA and AA (and IB and QF) have a special relationship, more than the regular OW codeshares) that specifically offers the higher allowance across all segments for a one-way flight between the airlines. So when flying JFK-LHR-MAN for example, AA connecting to BA, 1st segment in Y and 2nd segment in C, you get the C allowance, even though DOT rules don't require it, IATA rules don't require it, and OW rules don't require it.
Certainly nice for the customer, but AA doesn't do that with other partner airlines, and other airlines (UA, DL, etc.) certainly aren't bound by that (much as we'd all might wish those to be the rules)
So if you were booked ORD-LHR-DUS and then DUS-LCY, and then LHR-ORD (completely made-up itin) where every single segment is in discounted Y and you have no status - EXCEPT DUS-LCY is in Club Europe (C). In that case, your allowance for the entire journey would be 2X32 kg and not 1X23, even on the outbound.
Then, BA and AA (and IB and QF) have a special relationship, more than the regular OW codeshares) that specifically offers the higher allowance across all segments for a one-way flight between the airlines. So when flying JFK-LHR-MAN for example, AA connecting to BA, 1st segment in Y and 2nd segment in C, you get the C allowance, even though DOT rules don't require it, IATA rules don't require it, and OW rules don't require it.
Certainly nice for the customer, but AA doesn't do that with other partner airlines, and other airlines (UA, DL, etc.) certainly aren't bound by that (much as we'd all might wish those to be the rules)