United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".
May 22, 2012, 3:23 pm
#916
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: TPE
Programs: UA Gold, HA Premier, Hertz #1 Gold PC, SBUX Gold
Posts: 603
Yup... I completely expect that to happen. Loyalty is not rewarded or valued any longer and the Continental has done a marvelous job teaching us all that lesson.
Just finished up booking my flights for the next few weeks. 8 AA and 2 US... I'm jumping into the deep end ... hope the water is warm.
Just finished up booking my flights for the next few weeks. 8 AA and 2 US... I'm jumping into the deep end ... hope the water is warm.
For now I'm juts sticking it out. As a lowly 2P most of my post 3/3 travel has gone fairly smooth and the two IRROPS I had got protected pretty well as long as I was still pro-active and knew what I wanted (CS was willing to work with me still). The fact is most of my long hauls are TPAC so I just choose to fly other *A carriers with better products anyway and still get my UA miles and status.
May 22, 2012, 4:13 pm
#917
In Memorium
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA 1K-3.5MM; AA Exec. Plat.; Hyatt Diamond; Marriott Platinum
Posts: 356
So sad to see and hear. For years I tried to allign my schedule to make sure I could be on a UA flight, and I felt appreciated as a 1K. No more.
May 22, 2012, 4:19 pm
#918
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
So to label us, we are a bunch of "Wilson's". Inanimate objects they would like to have help them through their day (Quarters/Year), won't talk back, don't feel entitled, can be pulled out and idolized when it fits their need, can be kicked around for enjoyment/exercise and snuggled with at bedtime to know our dollars are still there.
May 22, 2012, 4:19 pm
#919
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma
Programs: DL Gold, UA Ag Muti-year WN Companion Pass, A+, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Plat Ntl EmExElite
Posts: 941
I'm surprised he didn't use the term "self loading cargo" instead of passenger/customer, as I think this is more of what all the airlines think of their passengers/customers.
I don't think United is alone in this opinion of their customers, and I'm sure this is expressed in the break rooms in just about every airport by probably every airline employee. I'm sure there is some truth to it, however if you are the head of a company that feels compelled to say this in public, then you should seek another line of work.
If you don't like dealing with the public, get out of the service business, and find something where you are better suited. Also management leads by example, and having disdain for your customer base doesn't exactly make the situation better, any more than pouring gasoline on a fire to put it out.
The airlines created this situation by providing horrible service, then they created loyalty programs where the more you flew the less terribly they treated you. They promised upgrades the more you fly, and then after you flew millions of miles, and asked for an upgrade they tell you that you are acting over entitled. They created the system, made the rules, and are now trying to back out of this system. Great business model, and they wonder why they are going broke.
I don't think United is alone in this opinion of their customers, and I'm sure this is expressed in the break rooms in just about every airport by probably every airline employee. I'm sure there is some truth to it, however if you are the head of a company that feels compelled to say this in public, then you should seek another line of work.
If you don't like dealing with the public, get out of the service business, and find something where you are better suited. Also management leads by example, and having disdain for your customer base doesn't exactly make the situation better, any more than pouring gasoline on a fire to put it out.
The airlines created this situation by providing horrible service, then they created loyalty programs where the more you flew the less terribly they treated you. They promised upgrades the more you fly, and then after you flew millions of miles, and asked for an upgrade they tell you that you are acting over entitled. They created the system, made the rules, and are now trying to back out of this system. Great business model, and they wonder why they are going broke.
May 22, 2012, 4:26 pm
#920
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: PHX
Programs: UA 1KMM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, AVIS President's Club
Posts: 100
My understanding is that current status (MM indicator if any is no longer included) is still shown for customers in C and F, but has been removed from the manifest for customers in Y.
May 22, 2012, 4:55 pm
#921
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Silver
Posts: 1,155
It's amazing to read this thread and the hostility toward the Mileage Plus program that COdbaUA has managed to generate. I am reminded of fozz's podcast when he interviewed Scott O'Leary (then posting as CO Insider) three years ago. Scott was asked about implementing an SWU program on Continental.
May 22, 2012, 5:00 pm
#922
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver • DEN-APA
Programs: AF Platinum, EK Gold, AA EXP, UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 21,602
As for UA being 2nd only to AA, that might have true last year. How many believe that now?
May 22, 2012, 5:31 pm
#923
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,490
UA formerly denoted "Million Mile Flyers," and PremEx discusses the distinction in this June 2000 post as follows:
Code Share flights do not count towards Million Mile Flyer status. Only pure United, United Shuttle and United Express credited flight miles count.
If I might explain a bit of subtle variation between Million Mile programs amongst some airlines: Delta and many other airlines refer to their qualified customers as "Million Milers." United marketing told me that their choice of the term "Million Mile Flyer" was very deliberate. It means that the member is a United million mile flyer. Bonus miles, segments, code share, alliance status miles, or any other status bonus that may apply as an occasional promotion, do not count towards Million Mile Flyer status.
Of course, as with anything United there is an exception. Your 500 flight mile minimum on United and United Express flights do count towards Million Mile Flyer status. So truthfully there are United Million Mile Flyers that have not actually flown a million air miles on United.
If I might explain a bit of subtle variation between Million Mile programs amongst some airlines: Delta and many other airlines refer to their qualified customers as "Million Milers." United marketing told me that their choice of the term "Million Mile Flyer" was very deliberate. It means that the member is a United million mile flyer. Bonus miles, segments, code share, alliance status miles, or any other status bonus that may apply as an occasional promotion, do not count towards Million Mile Flyer status.
Of course, as with anything United there is an exception. Your 500 flight mile minimum on United and United Express flights do count towards Million Mile Flyer status. So truthfully there are United Million Mile Flyers that have not actually flown a million air miles on United.
May 22, 2012, 5:44 pm
#924
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 251
Feel free to use my Ex-United "Over-Entitled 1K" luggage tag artwork....
May 22, 2012, 6:17 pm
#925
Join Date: Apr 2004
Programs: UA 1K 3.01MM Hyatt Globalist (Lifetime) AA ExPlat (real), Lifetime UniClub (not from the 2MM).
Posts: 173
It would make some sense for UA to exclude the newly designated "Million Milers" from the list. First, there are a lot more than there used to be. Second, IMHO UA deliberately cheapened that meaning.
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snip
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UA has, in this case, changed the title of the "over-entitled" and rendered the category "Million Miler" largely meaningless.
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snip
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UA has, in this case, changed the title of the "over-entitled" and rendered the category "Million Miler" largely meaningless.
May 22, 2012, 6:18 pm
#926
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DFW
Programs: UA peon (+decades 1K), AA Exec Plt
Posts: 1,117
Years ago I had a conversation with Graham Atkinson (then SVP of International) about improving service levels at United. He said that every survey they did said that people would not pay for higher service. I argued then (and still believe) that their surveys were wrong, because what they were getting was people's reaction that they would increase prices first and maybe increase service later.
Hyatt, Ritz Carlton, Four Seasons, etc. are able to charge more for their rooms than Motel 6, mostly because of higher levels of service. I know that I routinely pay more to shop at stores that provide me premium service. I would happily do that for an airline that did the same.
Hyatt, Ritz Carlton, Four Seasons, etc. are able to charge more for their rooms than Motel 6, mostly because of higher levels of service. I know that I routinely pay more to shop at stores that provide me premium service. I would happily do that for an airline that did the same.
May 22, 2012, 6:35 pm
#927
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: UA Plat, Copa Pres. Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond, SPG LT Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 769
Asking someone if they will pay more IMO is going to get a negative reply in general. When you are running a business you have to make this kind of decision upfront: are you going to be Walmart or Nordstrom? If you take such a survey in Walmart people would say no. At Nordstrom they would just look at you kind of funny because if they weren't already getting better service they wouldn't be shopping there.
Having written a LOT of research questionnaires over the years, I can certainly attest to the fact that figuring out what people are and are not willing to pay a premium for has to be posed / framed in the right way... otherwise you're going to get misleading results that could easily suggest that people aren't willing to pay a premium for premium services
May 22, 2012, 6:37 pm
#928
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
My concern is that UA wants to have it both ways with the W fares. Ultimately it the benefit of SWUs become virtually meaningless. Specifically, they want me to pay more for a W fare for a *chance* to upgrade while at the same time rendering it even more unlikely I will be able to upgrade because they are giving others TOD offers.
I'm finding out how this operates right now. IAD-DXB flight and almost 20 open seats in C. Wonder if I will get a TOD offer or it will go to kettle.
I'm finding out how this operates right now. IAD-DXB flight and almost 20 open seats in C. Wonder if I will get a TOD offer or it will go to kettle.
May 22, 2012, 7:05 pm
#929
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: MEL/LAX/JFK
Programs: UA 1K(0.7MM) Hilton Gold/La Quinta Gold
Posts: 897
You forgot the T-24 cut off where everyone is now dumped until Checkin.
May 22, 2012, 9:44 pm
#930
Join Date: Apr 2004
Programs: UA 1K 3.01MM Hyatt Globalist (Lifetime) AA ExPlat (real), Lifetime UniClub (not from the 2MM).
Posts: 173
+1 to that
Having written a LOT of research questionnaires over the years, I can certainly attest to the fact that figuring out what people are and are not willing to pay a premium for has to be posed / framed in the right way... otherwise you're going to get misleading results that could easily suggest that people aren't willing to pay a premium for premium services
Having written a LOT of research questionnaires over the years, I can certainly attest to the fact that figuring out what people are and are not willing to pay a premium for has to be posed / framed in the right way... otherwise you're going to get misleading results that could easily suggest that people aren't willing to pay a premium for premium services
For example, if you were able to pay for a dedicated check in position and security line that meant that you could arrive at the airport 30 minutes before your flight and would guaranteed of making your flight (confirmed First Class, with space in the overhead reserved), would you do it? I know that I would.