Business first v. Global First
Sep 25, 2013, 4:01 pm
#106
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: BOS
Programs: Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott/SPG/Hilton Gold, PreCheck + Clear
Posts: 2,306
Avoided at all costs? Surely that is hyperbole. The middle seats in the four-abreast configuration are admittedly flawed, but with that exception I find pmUA BF seats to be exceptionally comfortable and enjoyable.
Sep 25, 2013, 4:08 pm
#107
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PDX
Programs: UA, AS, AA, DL
Posts: 260
I was in GF for the first time on the IAD-LHR flight (both ways) last week, seat 1A on a 777. I thought the service was excellent, and travelling alone I really liked the privacy of that seat. The storage in, around, and over the seat was excellent -- more than I could use. The meal was "OK", not great (Air France, Singapore), not terrible (Delta, American). Most importantly, I got a good 4-5 hours sleep on the flight.
I'll be flying in BF next week SFO-LHR, but that route is on a 747, and based on SeatGuru advice I've booked the front seat(s) in the UD (return flight is with spouse). My previous experience with international/long-haul C on UA (from pre-merger times) is pretty decent, and I assume this is roughly the same experience as BF. I'll write then to compare.
Of course, domestic F on UA is still an exercise in frustration, but at least the duration is short.
I'll be flying in BF next week SFO-LHR, but that route is on a 747, and based on SeatGuru advice I've booked the front seat(s) in the UD (return flight is with spouse). My previous experience with international/long-haul C on UA (from pre-merger times) is pretty decent, and I assume this is roughly the same experience as BF. I'll write then to compare.
Of course, domestic F on UA is still an exercise in frustration, but at least the duration is short.
Sep 25, 2013, 4:28 pm
#108
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Houston
Programs: UA - 1K, Marriott - Gold, Hilton - Gold, Global Entry,
Posts: 633
Many UA threads describe huge efforts by FTer's to secure space in GF rather than BF. Indeed, many suggest that if GF cannot be obtained, the pax should: (a) change to a less convenient flight time/date; or (b) change airline choice.
For long flights, I believe it is clear that BF is significantly superior to E or E+ (far better seat, far better meal, free booze, etc.); it is less clear to me how much better GF is to BF. The seat is only marginally larger, and both lie flat. The IFE is quite similar, the booze and the service only a little bit better. Am I missing something here? Other than for the feeling of exclusivity, how much more valuable is GF?
Please note, this is intended to be a legitimate question, not a wind-up. Just looking for an honest evaluation. Thanks.
For long flights, I believe it is clear that BF is significantly superior to E or E+ (far better seat, far better meal, free booze, etc.); it is less clear to me how much better GF is to BF. The seat is only marginally larger, and both lie flat. The IFE is quite similar, the booze and the service only a little bit better. Am I missing something here? Other than for the feeling of exclusivity, how much more valuable is GF?
Please note, this is intended to be a legitimate question, not a wind-up. Just looking for an honest evaluation. Thanks.
I get a decent lie flat seat and free wine in BF and that generally keeps me happy. I prefer the pmCO BF seat to pmUA for a little more storage and space between you and your neighbor, but the pmUA BF seats are fine. If you really value additional privacy the GF may be worth it. I was offered turndown service, but since it was a daytime flight I declined since I didn't need it for an hr nap. Probably more worthwhile on an eastbound overnight flight. in T4 at LHR and at IAH, there are no premium facilities so my pre-flight experience was no different than if I were on a Y ticket as a PP. I already had lounge access, 3 checked bags, premier desk check in, group 1 boarding so no benefits there. I've never experienced it from a pmUA hub that has proper F facilities so that may significantly enhance the experience.
As a few posters have mentioned, F used to be a major upgrade over C when C didn't have lie flat seats. Now with lie flat and good IFE, I don't personally see a lot of value in F over J. It might be different on other airlines though. I'm flying F on BA for the first time next month and I'm expecting it to be a much better experience than F on UA - concorde room, F check in area, Kate Moss escorting me to the plan and being my personal concierge and flight attendant, etc.
My personal opinion is that UA could make F more exclusive and competitive with European airlines but my impression is that a material % of GF seats are not paid seats - award/upgrade/non-rev. It may diminish their incentive to make it better....higher quailty wine/champagne, better food service, better ground service, etc.
Last edited by XCstud; Sep 26, 2013 at 4:48 am Reason: changing wording regarding opinion on non-paid GF travel, don't want to sidetrack thread
Sep 25, 2013, 5:50 pm
#109
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,657
I think the order is as follows:
"Best"
1) GF on 747
2) GF on 777
3) GF on 767
4) BF on PMCO 777/767/757 (tie)
4) BF on 747 UD/LD (tie) (seat is wider than 767/777, but 4 across in center)
5) BF on PMUA 767 (seat is narrow, but only 2 across, and overhead bins suck)
6) BF on PMUA 777 (seat is narrow and 4 across in center)
"Worst"
People tend to like GF and the PMCO BF product because you've got your own "space" in your own little private "pod."
Whereas the PMUA BF product, you've not really any privacy.
"Best"
1) GF on 747
2) GF on 777
3) GF on 767
4) BF on PMCO 777/767/757 (tie)
4) BF on 747 UD/LD (tie) (seat is wider than 767/777, but 4 across in center)
5) BF on PMUA 767 (seat is narrow, but only 2 across, and overhead bins suck)
6) BF on PMUA 777 (seat is narrow and 4 across in center)
"Worst"
People tend to like GF and the PMCO BF product because you've got your own "space" in your own little private "pod."
Whereas the PMUA BF product, you've not really any privacy.
Having flown many flights on UNITED since the merger started, I would say you are SPOT ON.^
However, I would amend this to include PMUA p.s birds "flat bed version" which I place at number 5. My logic for this is PMCO 757 is a private cabin, boarding via 2L turn left. PMUA 757, p.s has the mini business class cabin at the back. The FA's use the front seats like a storage bin, and the front seats near the door / galley /toilet is kind of annoying)
I would also amend to say that UD 747 BF is better due to extra closet next to seat, and carry on stored near staircase.
Best
1) GF on 747
2) GF on 777
3) GF on 767
4) BF on PMCO 777/767/757 (tie)
4) BF on 747 UD
5) BF on 747 LD (seat is wider than 767/777, but 4 across in center)
5) BF on PMUA 767 (seat is narrow, but only 2 across, and overhead bins suck)
5) BF on PMUA 757 "premium service" ( No private cabin, also seat next to galley/door, weird)
6) BF on PMUA 777 (seat is narrow and 4 across in center)
"Worst"
Last edited by meFIRST; Sep 26, 2013 at 3:22 pm
Sep 25, 2013, 6:41 pm
#110
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,468
I recently flew GF SFO-LHR. It was worth the miles + co-pay IMO. Direct aisle access, extra space, storage, and privacy were a substantial upgrade from BF. Food was the best I can recall on a flight (including recent trips in J on SQ and LX), particularly the crab chowder. London based flight crew was extremely attentive.
ps. There were no NR's in GF. Booked 10/12 at T-24 with two gate upgrades from BF. Based on watching loads and upgrade lists, I believe this to be the current norm on this route.
ps. There were no NR's in GF. Booked 10/12 at T-24 with two gate upgrades from BF. Based on watching loads and upgrade lists, I believe this to be the current norm on this route.
Sep 25, 2013, 6:57 pm
#111
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: near to SFO and LHR
Programs: BA Gold, B6 Mosiac, VS, AA, DL (and a legacy UA 2MM)
Posts: 2,274
It depends on what you value the most. I used 20k miles to upgrade to GF and I won't burn miles on that again....at least flying on a legacy pmCO route with no F lounges. The service was attentive, wine was slightly better and they had a hot soup you don't get in BF, but other than the wine and soup the meal service was essentially the same.
I get a decent lie flat seat and free wine in BF and that generally keeps me happy. I prefer the pmCO BF seat to pmUA for a little more storage and space between you and your neighbor, but the pmUA BF seats are fine. If you really value additional privacy the GF may be worth it. I was offered turndown service, but since it was a daytime flight I declined since I didn't need it for an hr nap. Probably more worthwhile on an eastbound overnight flight. in T4 at LHR and at IAH, there are no premium facilities so my pre-flight experience was no different than if I were on a Y ticket as a PP. I already had lounge access, 3 checked bags, premier desk check in, group 1 boarding so no benefits there. I've never experienced it from a pmUA hub that has proper F facilities so that may significantly enhance the experience.
As a few posters have mentioned, F used to be a major upgrade over C when C didn't have lie flat seats. Now with lie flat and good IFE, I don't personally see a lot of value in F over J. It might be different on other airlines though. I'm flying F on BA for the first time next month and I'm expecting it to be a much better experience than F on UA - concorde room, F check in area, Kate Moss escorting me to the plan and being my personal concierge and flight attendant, etc.
My personal opinion is that UA could make F more exclusive and competitive with European airlines but due to their union contracts, it's a perk they give away to their employees. I don't know what % ends up being non-rev, but if it is significant it may diminish their incentive to make it better....higher quailty wine/champagne, better food service, better ground service, etc.
I get a decent lie flat seat and free wine in BF and that generally keeps me happy. I prefer the pmCO BF seat to pmUA for a little more storage and space between you and your neighbor, but the pmUA BF seats are fine. If you really value additional privacy the GF may be worth it. I was offered turndown service, but since it was a daytime flight I declined since I didn't need it for an hr nap. Probably more worthwhile on an eastbound overnight flight. in T4 at LHR and at IAH, there are no premium facilities so my pre-flight experience was no different than if I were on a Y ticket as a PP. I already had lounge access, 3 checked bags, premier desk check in, group 1 boarding so no benefits there. I've never experienced it from a pmUA hub that has proper F facilities so that may significantly enhance the experience.
As a few posters have mentioned, F used to be a major upgrade over C when C didn't have lie flat seats. Now with lie flat and good IFE, I don't personally see a lot of value in F over J. It might be different on other airlines though. I'm flying F on BA for the first time next month and I'm expecting it to be a much better experience than F on UA - concorde room, F check in area, Kate Moss escorting me to the plan and being my personal concierge and flight attendant, etc.
My personal opinion is that UA could make F more exclusive and competitive with European airlines but due to their union contracts, it's a perk they give away to their employees. I don't know what % ends up being non-rev, but if it is significant it may diminish their incentive to make it better....higher quailty wine/champagne, better food service, better ground service, etc.
I haven't seen that many non-revs in GF, so my experience is different from yours. I find the food to be pretty good on UA recently, in both F and C. The FA's working in First have lots of seniority, and so one will find the occasional burned-out worker which ruins the experience, but they are otherwise generally pretty good. It would be great if UA could figure out how to drum out the burned-out FA's - but again I haven't seen too many lately, so maybe it's happening by attrition!
Sep 25, 2013, 8:07 pm
#113
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: NYC/WAS
Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL '90s PM, now FK (Flying Kettle)
Posts: 541
1) GF on 747
2) GF on 777
3) GF on 767
4) BF on PMCO 777/767/757 (tie)
4) BF on 747 UD
5) BF on 747 LD (seat is wider than 767/777, but 4 across in center)
5) BF on PMUA 767 (seat is narrow, but only 2 across, and overhead bins suck)
5) BF on PMUA 757 "premium service" ( No private cabin, also seat next to galley/door, weird)
6) BF on PMUA 777 (seat is narrow and 4 across in center)
"Worst"
2) GF on 777
3) GF on 767
4) BF on PMCO 777/767/757 (tie)
4) BF on 747 UD
5) BF on 747 LD (seat is wider than 767/777, but 4 across in center)
5) BF on PMUA 767 (seat is narrow, but only 2 across, and overhead bins suck)
5) BF on PMUA 757 "premium service" ( No private cabin, also seat next to galley/door, weird)
6) BF on PMUA 777 (seat is narrow and 4 across in center)
"Worst"
While I'm happier there than in the middle of a
-configured pmUA 777, there's no way it's better than a 747 UD. Or even the side seats of the pmUA 777!
Sep 25, 2013, 8:14 pm
#114
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Houston
Programs: UA GS 2.6MM & Lifetime UC, Qantas Platinum, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, Bonvoy Platinum, HawaiianMiles
Posts: 8,700
Unless you're a ballerina that can push your feet together with your toes in the "en pointe" position, I really disagree with your high rating of BF in the pmCO 777.
While I'm happier there than in the middle of a -configured pmUA 777, there's no way it's better than a 747 UD. Or even the side seats of the pmUA 777!
While I'm happier there than in the middle of a
-configured pmUA 777, there's no way it's better than a 747 UD. Or even the side seats of the pmUA 777!
Sep 25, 2013, 8:49 pm
#115
Join Date: Sep 2009
Programs: UA GS>1K>Nothing; DL DM 2MM; AS 75K>Nothing>MVP
Posts: 9,341
For me GF is significantly better than J particularly the seat comfort and size of the seat. I'm tall so that's important. I always like the increased privacy and better aisle access. Service, food and IFE are ho-hum.
Basically for any flight over 6 hours or for any red-eye over 3 hours,
1) If there is both GF and J on a flight I will never fly in J.
2) If there is no GF, I will try to fly on another airline which has international F.
3) If there is no F on any airline, I will try to avoid making the trip.
4) If I have to make the trip, I will fly J on a direct non-stop rather than wasting my time with an indirect routing in order to fly in GF.
Basically for any flight over 6 hours or for any red-eye over 3 hours,
1) If there is both GF and J on a flight I will never fly in J.
2) If there is no GF, I will try to fly on another airline which has international F.
3) If there is no F on any airline, I will try to avoid making the trip.
4) If I have to make the trip, I will fly J on a direct non-stop rather than wasting my time with an indirect routing in order to fly in GF.
Sep 25, 2013, 8:57 pm
#116
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: NYC/WAS
Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL '90s PM, now FK (Flying Kettle)
Posts: 541
I added myself to a PEK-EWR flight at the last minute and didn't have much seat choice. I wasn't at a bulkhead, and suffered with a tiny foot well. (Happily, I was able to upgrade into GF on the outbound IAD-PEK and avoid the pmUA BF crowd scene.)
Sep 25, 2013, 9:03 pm
#117
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
Having flown many flights on UNITED since the merger started, I would say you are SPOT ON.^
However, I would amend this to include PMUA p.s birds "flat bed version" which I place at number 5. My logic for this is PMCO 757 is a private cabin, boarding via 2L turn left. PMUA 757, p.s has the mini business class cabin at the back. The FA's use the front seats like a storage bin, and the front seats near the door / galley /toilet is kind of annoying)
I would also amend to say that UD 747 BF is better due to extra closet next to seat, and carry on stored near staircase.
1) GF on 747
2) GF on 777
3) GF on 767
4) BF on PMCO 777/767/757 (tie)
4) BF on 747 UD
5) BF on 747 LD (seat is wider than 767/777, but 4 across in center)
5) BF on PMUA 767 (seat is narrow, but only 2 across, and overhead bins suck)
5) BF on PMUA 757 "premium service" ( No private cabin, also seat next to galley/door, weird)
6) BF on PMUA 777 (seat is narrow and 4 across in center)
"Worst"
However, I would amend this to include PMUA p.s birds "flat bed version" which I place at number 5. My logic for this is PMCO 757 is a private cabin, boarding via 2L turn left. PMUA 757, p.s has the mini business class cabin at the back. The FA's use the front seats like a storage bin, and the front seats near the door / galley /toilet is kind of annoying)
I would also amend to say that UD 747 BF is better due to extra closet next to seat, and carry on stored near staircase.
1) GF on 747
2) GF on 777
3) GF on 767
4) BF on PMCO 777/767/757 (tie)
4) BF on 747 UD
5) BF on 747 LD (seat is wider than 767/777, but 4 across in center)
5) BF on PMUA 767 (seat is narrow, but only 2 across, and overhead bins suck)
5) BF on PMUA 757 "premium service" ( No private cabin, also seat next to galley/door, weird)
6) BF on PMUA 777 (seat is narrow and 4 across in center)
"Worst"
Why GF on a 747 above a 777 or 767 other than novelty? It's the most dense cabin of the 3 and most narrow as well being in the nose tip.
777 has the most cabin space.
And assuming your PS 757 rating is for the non-lie flat version being phased out.
Sep 25, 2013, 9:07 pm
#118
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,172
Agree though but...
Why GF on a 747 above a 777 or 767 other than novelty? It's the most dense cabin of the 3 and most narrow as well being in the nose tip.
777 has the most cabin space.
And assuming your PS 757 rating is for the non-lie flat version being phased out.
Why GF on a 747 above a 777 or 767 other than novelty? It's the most dense cabin of the 3 and most narrow as well being in the nose tip.
777 has the most cabin space.
And assuming your PS 757 rating is for the non-lie flat version being phased out.
Sep 26, 2013, 3:21 pm
#119
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,657
Agree though but...
Why GF on a 747 above a 777 or 767 other than novelty? It's the most dense cabin of the 3 and most narrow as well being in the nose tip.
777 has the most cabin space.
And assuming your PS 757 rating is for the non-lie flat version being phased out.
Why GF on a 747 above a 777 or 767 other than novelty? It's the most dense cabin of the 3 and most narrow as well being in the nose tip.
777 has the most cabin space.
And assuming your PS 757 rating is for the non-lie flat version being phased out.
The old one is completely over rated. Flat bed seats rule. Especially on red eyes coming back to the east coast.
Sep 26, 2013, 8:00 pm
#120
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Orange County, CA
Programs: United GS, MM, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 598
Great info here. Flying for the first time on a 777 from SFO to ORD in a few weeks, and paid $50 to upgrade to business first. Seemed like a steal compared to using a RPU/GPU (which was waitlist only). Although I wanted to use up one of my GPUs that are expiring in January, and I never fly international.