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-   -   Local lockdowns in the UK (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/u-k-ireland/2025295-local-lockdowns-uk.html)

corporate-wage-slave Apr 6, 2021 3:06 am


Originally Posted by Dan1113 (Post 33155882)
My main goal for this summer is to see my mother who is in a country where covid is not doing so great and she herself is not doing very well. My goal is to see her in a third country to avoid a hotel quarantine, so which vaccine I get, if any at all any time soon, restrictions from Scotland, etc. etc are all such a worry. Being in April already I want to plan but I feel like I can't at all. Strange times.

What you could do is plan to see her in her home country, then you spend 11 days in a carefully selected third country, which would be amber or green. If you are vaccinated and have had plenty of tests along the way then that seems the lower risk option, assuming she can't get vaccinated yet.

wilsnunn Apr 6, 2021 3:07 am


Originally Posted by bluemoon68 (Post 33153977)
Probably because people were told to book first vaccines prior to 29/3, even if the date of their appointment was later. Second vaccines are being prioritised at the moment.

That said, speaking to work colleagues could yield results. Even turning up at a mass vaccination centre or pharmacy, may allow her a walk-in appointment.

if that fails then follow the advice on the booking page -“You may find it harder to book 1st vaccination appointments in April. If you are eligible to use this service but cannot get an appointment, speak to your GP surgery.”

I had been keeping an eye on the booking system since beginning of March and no slots which suited us (based on our travel back to UK and 10 day self isolation etc) ever became available. Our local vaccination centres seemed to only provide bookings up to 2 weeks away.

Dan1113 Apr 6, 2021 3:09 am


Appearing on the BBC’s Good Morning Scotland programme on Monday, health secretary Jeane Freeman was asked whether the changes could mean people in England being allowed to travel abroad while those in Scotland are told not to.

“I don’t know the answer to that yet,” she said. “What I do know is that we only need to look at the situation in France to see what can happen if you move too fast and you have, as France does, more than one variant to contend with.

“What I know for sure is that I don’t want us to move back into a third lockdown. I am absolutely certain that businesses don’t want that too.

“If that means we can ease domestically, whilst restricting ourselves in terms of international travel, then that might be the right choice to make.

“But at this point, it’s too early to have a definitive view on that. We need to see how we make progress.”

DaveS Apr 6, 2021 3:10 am

EasyJet with something to say on testing, via BBC:


EasyJet: Two test travel plan would be too expensive
The boss of EasyJet has said testing requirements under a proposed "traffic light" system for international travel would be too expensive.

Under the system, no isolation would be necessary on return to the UK from so-called "green" countries.

But pre-departure and post-arrival tests would be required, potentially costing up to £200 each.

Johan Lundgren said: "You wouldn't open up international travel for everyone, but only those who can afford it."

Mr Lundgren told the BBC's Today programme that the cost of getting the tests would exceed a typical EasyJet fare.

VSLover Apr 6, 2021 3:14 am


Originally Posted by KSVVZ2015 (Post 33155881)
Which is better than zero!! And most importantly, if one country is green it means presumably that the non-essential travel ban was lifted with respect to at least non-red list countries. Meaning we get our freedom to make decisions back. One could choose to travel to most of the world based solely on (i) the destination country's policies and (ii) willingness to comply with the green or amber testing and isolation requirements. Right now, those rights are taken away.

Sure, we'd all like COVID to disappear and travel to revert to 2019 tomorrow. But since that's impossible, I'll take something over the status quo.

agree. i guess im thinking of european destinations over the summer. say if country goes green but then still requires a 5 day quarantine on arrival, for example, that kills a weekend jaunt. or a country goes green but does not allow tourists. -- these were the primary instances i was thinking of because while it may be likely those countries may be "open" there is no real discussion happening to indicate that is the case. hopefully it is by next month and we dont have green countries that have entry requirements beyond testing.

VSLover Apr 6, 2021 3:23 am


Originally Posted by DaveS (Post 33155905)
EasyJet with something to say on testing, via BBC:

you know what else is more than a typical easyjet fare? selecting a seat, checked bags, fast trak and a can of pringles.

8420PR Apr 6, 2021 3:36 am


Originally Posted by KARFA (Post 33155838)
Very interesting stuff, I am not clear, are they really suggesting mixing vaccines? Even vaccines of different types? This is very odd - there is no approval for this and no trials have been put forward for approval for this. It would be going in to the unknown currently.

Yes, the recommendation is if you are under 60 and received a first dose of the AZ vaccine that you should get a second dose of Pfizer or Moderna 12 weeks after the first vaccination. It is point 5 below:

https://www.rki.de/SharedDocs/FAQ/CO...#FAQId15294220


Originally Posted by STIKO translated using google
The STIKO recommendation is always based on the best scientific knowledge currently available. New knowledge is continuously assessed and the recommendations are adapted and updated accordingly.

New recommendation from April 1st, 2021 at a glance:
  1. The STIKO recommends vaccination against COVID-19 . One of the two approved mRNA vaccines (Comirnaty from BioNTech / Pfizer, COVID-19 -Vaccine from Moderna) or one of the two approved vector vaccines ( COVID-19 Vaccine Vaxzevria from AstraZeneca, COVID-19 Vaccine Janssen from Johnson & Johnson). A vaccination series that has already started must currently be completed with the same product; an exception applies to the vaccination of people <60 years of age who have already received the first dose of the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca (see below). The Vaccines are judged to be equally suitable in terms of individual protection and the fight against the pandemic. Direct comparative studies between the different vaccines are very limited. The two mRNA vaccines and the Janssen's vector-based vaccine can be used in all age groups for which they are approved. For the vector-based COVID-19 vaccine from AstraZeneca, STIKO recommends use for all persons aged ≥60 years. The use of the COVID-19- Vaxzevria vaccine from AstraZeneca for a first or second vaccine dose below this age limit, however, remains possible at the discretion of the doctor and after careful consultation with individual risk acceptance.
  2. The COVID-19 recommendation of STIKO made up for the prioritization of the general recommendation for vaccination and a recommendation. During the pandemic, it is an indication vaccination recommendation in the context of the epidemic situation of national scope. After the approval of the first COVID-19 vaccine at the end of 2020, the nationwide vaccination program began to vaccinate the first-stage groups of people with the highest risk. With increasing but still limited vaccine availability, groups of people should be vaccinated in the 2nd stage, which now also includes people with chronic kidney disease requiring dialysis. People follow in each subsequent level.
  3. The STIKO recommends vaccination with the COVID-19 vaccine Janssen of Johnson & Johnson. This can be used for all age groups. The vaccine was found to be around 65% effective against laboratory- confirmed COVID-19 disease for all age groups . For the COVID-19 vaccine Janssen, only one vaccine dose is required to date, which is to be administered intramuscularly (in the m .). The most common local reactions were pain at the injection site (vaccination: 49%; comparison group: 17%). Among the systemic reactions, exhaustion (vaccination: 38%; placebo: 22%) and headache (vaccination: 39%, comparison group: 24%) were the most common events.
  4. The decision to recommend the AstraZeneca vaccine for people aged ≥60 only is based on intensive analysis of the current, but currently limited, data and the consideration of the current pandemic situation. After vaccination with the COVID-19 vaccine Vaxzevria from AstraZeneca, rare cases of thrombosis in combination with thrombocytopenia have occurred in vaccinated persons. Symptoms appeared 4 to 16 days after vaccination. These serious, sometimes fatal side effects were predominantly observed in women aged ≤55 years. But men and the elderly were also affected. Based on the current data situation, the STIKO generally recommends vaccination with theCOVID-19 vaccine Vaxzevria from AstraZeneca only people aged ≥60 years, as in this age group the risk of developing COVID-19 and perhaps dying increases significantly and the risk-benefit balance is clearly in favor of the vaccination. Although significantly more women were affected, the STIKO restricts its recommendations for both genders after weighing up the risks and benefits; All the more so since alternative vaccines are available without this safety signal. The use of the AstraZeneca vaccine below this age limit, however, remains possible at the discretion of the doctor and after careful consultation with individual risk acceptance.
  5. Regarding the second dose of vaccine for younger people who have already received a first dose of the COVID-19 Vaccine Vaxzevria (AstraZeneca), there is still no scientific evidence on the safety and effectiveness of a mixed series of vaccinations. Until appropriate data are available, the STIKO recommends that people <60 years of age instead of the second Vaxzevria vaccine dose of AstraZeneca administer a dose of an mRNA vaccine 12 weeks after the first vaccination . Furthermore, the STIKO recommends a study that examines immunological effects according to the heterologous vaccination scheme.
  6. For those who have been vaccinated with the Vaxzevria vaccine , the STIKO recommends that they should be informed about symptoms such as persistent headache, shortness of breath, leg swelling, persistent abdominal pain, neurological symptoms or punctiform skin bleeding. If these symptoms appear several days after vaccination and persist, medical help should be sought immediately. Doctors should look out for signs and symptoms of thromboembolism in combination with thrombopenia when presenting with patients who have recently contracted the COVID-19- AstraZeneca vaccine. This applies in particular if the patient complains of headaches that begin and then persist more than three days after the vaccination or punctiform skin bleeding occurs.
  7. For a complete vaccination series of the two mRNA vaccines and the vector-based AstraZeneca vaccine, two intramuscular (im) vaccine doses are required. Taking into account the approvals and the available efficacy data, the STIKO recommends an interval of 6 weeks between the two vaccine doses for the mRNA vaccines. Based vector for the vaccine AstraZeneca recommends the STIKO vaccine doses in the interval of 12 weeks to administer.
  8. On the basis of the data available so far, it can be assumed that virus excretion is greatly reduced in those infected after full vaccination and thus the risk of transmission is reduced . However, it must be assumed that people after contact with the virus (exposure) can be infected symptomatically or asymptomatically despite vaccination and thereby excrete the SARS-CoV-2 virus (verified by PCR testing). Therefore, the generally recommended protective measures should be followed even after vaccination.
  9. For people with known allergic diseases, there is no generally increased risk of serious adverse effects when vaccinated with mRNA vaccines, provided there is no allergy to an ingredient of the respective vaccine (e.g. polyethylene glycol in the case of the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines) . For the procedure in the event of a positive allergy history before COVID-19 vaccinations, the STIKO refers to the following flowchart: Procedure in the event of a positive allergy history before COVID-19 vaccination (mRNA vaccines) (PDF, 86 KB, file is not accessible)


The STIKO recommendation is based on the current state of knowledge and therefore only takes into account those vaccines that are already approved and used in Germany or that will soon be used in Germany. The recommendation is continuously updated by the STIKO in the sense of a “Living Guideline” . This happens as soon as additional vaccines are approved and available in Germany or new relevant findings that influence this recommendation become known. The updated STIKO recommendation with scientific justification for COVID-19 vaccination will soon be published in the Epidemiological Bulletin. The current recommendation with information on practical implementation is here to find.

Status: 04/01/2021

Edited to Add: As mentioned before, the risk is not proven and very very small, and if there was enough AZ vaccine to vaccinate everyone today then certainly many many more lives would be saved through vaccination. On balance of the facts and risks, I would still take the AZ vaccination if it were available.

ahmetdouas Apr 6, 2021 3:37 am


Originally Posted by VSLover (Post 33155927)
you know what else is more than a typical easyjet fare? selecting a seat, checked bags, fast trak and a can of pringles.

Well rapid tests should 100% be free since the government is flooding the market with millions a day, then they should be used for travel as well, so no more rip off testing packages!

Kgmm77 Apr 6, 2021 3:44 am


Originally Posted by ahmetdouas (Post 33155863)
but I think this goes into the vaccine discrimination thing; e.g. forcing people to self isolate just because they haven’t been vaccinated. As the press says ‘two-tier’

You really aren’t going like it when you find out about the history of the Carte Jaune...

ft101 Apr 6, 2021 3:51 am


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 33152642)
I know you can do this on the English system, there is a cancel option online. In a way they really should make it easy to cancel since there are a range of circumstances when you can't / shouldn't get a vaccine.

I got through to the 0800 number with a workaround. Long recorded message but answered and dealt with quickly once through. Will call again when I return if I haven't been jabbed by then.

alex67500 Apr 6, 2021 3:54 am

One of the worrying things about vaccine passports is indeed that pubs and/or travel may reopen for vaccinated people and that others may be left behind. I'm in my 30s, and I've been generally in favour of lockdowns and other measures, to protect the elderly and more vulnerable in society. But if it means being discriminated against now that things are opening up, when I can't yet get a vaccine, I won't be very happy (to be polite).

I have a feeling that BJ left it in his speech ambiguously to see what the reaction would be. From what I can see in my social circles, I wouldn't expect much compliance with new / renewed restrictions if that policy were to be enacted now.

KARFA Apr 6, 2021 3:56 am


Originally Posted by Kgmm77 (Post 33155954)
You really aren’t going like it when you find out about the history of the Carte Jaune...

I think this is the comparison which often gets suggested, but it is important to recognise the fundamental difference. In terms of things like yellow fever which is covered in that card, that there is no lack of availability of the vaccine - anyone can easily go and get the vaccines for yellow fever if they wish at no or low cost. The choice to have one is wholly within the control of the person

For covid we have a very different situation where that choice isn't available, for many of us we just have to wait and I expect I won't get any vaccine until May/June, and possibly the second does in late summer. Here, you are being discriminated against based on something you can do nothing about.

paulaf Apr 6, 2021 4:05 am


Originally Posted by ft101 (Post 33155962)
I got through to the 0800 number with a workaround. Long recorded message but answered and dealt with quickly once through. Will call again when I return if I haven't been jabbed by then.

Its a shame the website doesn't let you amend a booking, it's only a cancel option and then rebook. We may have to reschedule our 2nd jabs so I guess it means a phone call whereas if they amended the website it would be easier.

bluemoon68 Apr 6, 2021 4:25 am


Originally Posted by paulaf (Post 33155976)
Its a shame the website doesn't let you amend a booking, it's only a cancel option and then rebook. We may have to reschedule our 2nd jabs so I guess it means a phone call whereas if they amended the website it would be easier.

Assuming you are in England, the national phone line 119 won't be any different. They can only cancel then rebook, exactly as you can do yourself online. As a warning, after receiving our second jabs through our GP clinic I cancelled our online booking, whereas Mrs bluemoon's slot could be immediately rebooked, mine had disappeared and there were no vaccines anywhere within a 50 mile radius.

8420PR Apr 6, 2021 4:25 am

Yesterday the last SAGE meeting minutes from 31st March were posted online. Looking through it seems to be mostly discussion on various models about what will happen

https://www.gov.uk/government/collec...ngs-march-2021

Relevant for travellers:

SPI-M-O considers slowing importation of new variants, such as B.1.351, into the UK a very important priority to allow for the next generation of vaccines to be developed. Whilst new vaccines can be developed, this will likely take many months. Measures to prevent and manage importation risks such as testing individuals, sequencing samples, and maintaining strict quarantine measures for those entering the country will remain important and may delay the spread of variants of concern.
Relevant for those waiting for a vaccine:

The central rollout scenario provided by the Cabinet Office is considerably slower, at an average of 2.7m doses per week in England until the end of July (2m thereafter), compared to 3.2m per week in the previous iteration (3.9m thereafter).
Relevant for those hoping everything will now be back to normal after 21st June:

19. The models continue to show that retaining a baseline set of measures to reduce transmission after other restrictions have been lifted would significantly reduce the scale of a resurgence and is therefore almost certain to reduce the burden on the NHS and save many lives (high confidence). It is not possible to determine what set of measures or behaviour changes would equate to the transmission reductions modelled. These could include voluntary measures (for example, hygiene measures, mask wearing in certain situations, avoiding crowding), environmental measures (for example, ventilation), or test, trace, and isolate systems.
I am sure there will some scare stories in the media, but my interpretation is the modelling validates the current approach (reduce transmission and roll-out the vaccine at the same time).


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