Successful Legal Cases Against Turkish Airlines
#61
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
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from personal experience. The agents are physically the same people, but when you submit it in Turkish they assume you have more information/will not give up easily.
EC261 equivalent Turkish law is there -
https://web.shgm.gov.tr/doc4/shy-passenger.pdf
In effect since 2012
EC261 equivalent Turkish law is there -
https://web.shgm.gov.tr/doc4/shy-passenger.pdf
In effect since 2012
PS: I know what SHGM rules are but usually from most of the cases that I hear from others, but the regulator is usually backing up TK but when it comes to foreign ( non-Turkish carriers ) then the decision is in favor of the passenger
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#62
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Geneva
Programs: Star Alliance, SkyTeam
Posts: 38
Would appreciate your guidance on this. It's a bit technical and visa related, about denied boarding.
My in-laws live in Congo Republic. They came to IST on TK and spent a few days there and then were about to board TK to CMN. They have passports of the Republic of Congo.
Despite Timatic not being fully precise, they are over 55 years and do not need visa or electronic travel authorisation (and this is actually confirmed by the official website from Morocco when you try to apply for it, and was also confirmed to me in writing from the Moroccan Consulate in Istanbul - but the passengers did not have this confirmation with them at the time).
TK denied them boarding. They had to pay a No-Show fee and additional hotel nights.
Repeated claims for financial compensation on their "feedback" page were rejected.
I want to go to court. My question is: which court can I go to? I live in Switzerland. Can I just do it here?
My in-laws live in Congo Republic. They came to IST on TK and spent a few days there and then were about to board TK to CMN. They have passports of the Republic of Congo.
Despite Timatic not being fully precise, they are over 55 years and do not need visa or electronic travel authorisation (and this is actually confirmed by the official website from Morocco when you try to apply for it, and was also confirmed to me in writing from the Moroccan Consulate in Istanbul - but the passengers did not have this confirmation with them at the time).
TK denied them boarding. They had to pay a No-Show fee and additional hotel nights.
Repeated claims for financial compensation on their "feedback" page were rejected.
I want to go to court. My question is: which court can I go to? I live in Switzerland. Can I just do it here?
#63
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: got2flyfar (YouTube)
Programs: FB Gold, TK Elite/*G, ITA Premium, Hilton Diamond; BW Diamond Select
Posts: 546
This is a question of Swiss law. As Switzerland is outside EU, Regulation (EU) no. 1215/2015 on the question of jurisdiction does not apply and I cannot help you with more than that. I would guess that you being in Switzerland would be irrelevant to the case as the domicile of the passengers would be the only relevant here. At the end, It might be the Turkish courts you might need to go to.
#64
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 12,264
It sounds like this claim has absolutely zero relations to Switzerland. Why do you expect a Swiss judge to be interested in interfering here, let alone to interpret Moroccan immigration law? Any sane judge will look for all opportunities to dismiss the claim based on no jurisdiction.
As for the merits of a claim, any case involving immigration law and visa is complicated and as it is the responsibility of the passenger to fulfill all immigration and visa requirements, so it may very well be uphill to hold TK liable here. You mention yourself that your parents didn't bring confirmation that they were exempt from visa requirements; this may lead to any claim against TK to fail. But good luck!
As for the merits of a claim, any case involving immigration law and visa is complicated and as it is the responsibility of the passenger to fulfill all immigration and visa requirements, so it may very well be uphill to hold TK liable here. You mention yourself that your parents didn't bring confirmation that they were exempt from visa requirements; this may lead to any claim against TK to fail. But good luck!
#65
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: got2flyfar (YouTube)
Programs: FB Gold, TK Elite/*G, ITA Premium, Hilton Diamond; BW Diamond Select
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As for the merits of a claim, any case involving immigration law and visa is complicated and as it is the responsibility of the passenger to fulfill all immigration and visa requirements, so it may very well be uphill to hold TK liable here. You mention yourself that your parents didn't bring confirmation that they were exempt from visa requirements; this may lead to any claim against TK to fail. But good luck!
#66
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
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Posts: 12,264
I don't agree. It is up to pax/it is the responsibility of pax to fulfill all immigration requirements; there is no obligation on the part of carriers to transport pax if there is (reasonable) risk that they may be denied entry. As you mention the carrier will be responsible to transport the pax back and may even be heavily fined for bringing pax without them fulfilling entry requirements. So if TK had reasonable doubt that the pax would not be allowed entry to Morocco TK did right in denying the pax to board the flight. I'm not qualified in Moroccan entry requirements, visa etc so no qualified opinion on whether TK had reasonable doubt, but if pax didn't bring proof that they were exempt from visa requirements I believe we are close to a situation where TK could have reasonable doubts. Also if TIMAC is not clear about this.
#67
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: got2flyfar (YouTube)
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As you mention the carrier will be responsible to transport the pax back and may even be heavily fined for bringing pax without them fulfilling entry requirements. So if TK had reasonable doubt that the pax would not be allowed entry to Morocco TK did right in denying the pax to board the flight.
I would love to see this in the court, which would prove you wrong SK AAR. I see from your flawed logic that you come from the business and think only $$$ and not also §§§.
#68
Join Date: Sep 2017
Programs: TK E+, RJ S, AZ E
Posts: 1,872
Carriers receive entry requirements from the TIMATIC system. In the case of OP, pax over 55 traveling to Marroco with a Congo, Republic, passport do not require anything special. But the info on TIMATIC doesn't reflect this and do require AVEM (prior authorization) from any such pax regardless of age. In addition, the AVEM does not issue prior authorization because of the pax age.
TK is not at fault here. They are only following the info in the system. It's the one who entered the info in TIMATIC at fault. Most probably one of the agencies in the Marrocan government.
TK is not at fault here. They are only following the info in the system. It's the one who entered the info in TIMATIC at fault. Most probably one of the agencies in the Marrocan government.
#69
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: got2flyfar (YouTube)
Programs: FB Gold, TK Elite/*G, ITA Premium, Hilton Diamond; BW Diamond Select
Posts: 546
Carriers receive entry requirements from the TIMATIC system. In the case of OP, pax over 55 traveling to Marroco with a Congo, Republic, passport do not require anything special. But the info on TIMATIC doesn't reflect this and do require AVEM (prior authorization) from any such pax regardless of age. In addition, the AVEM does not issue prior authorization because of the pax age.
TK is not at fault here. They are only following the info in the system. It's the one who entered the info in TIMATIC at fault. Most probably one of the agencies in the Marrocan government.
TK is not at fault here. They are only following the info in the system. It's the one who entered the info in TIMATIC at fault. Most probably one of the agencies in the Marrocan government.
#70
Join Date: Sep 2017
Programs: TK E+, RJ S, AZ E
Posts: 1,872
But based on the info provided in the system they made the correct decision. What do you suggest they were supposed to do differently?
#71
Join Date: Jan 2019
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Only if the law says that the system is binding, then they are out of liability. Otherwise, it is still TK's liability to make the right decisions. If they use the system fine, but they are responsible if the system is flawed. This is how law works.
#72
Join Date: Sep 2017
Programs: TK E+, RJ S, AZ E
Posts: 1,872
But I’m not bounded to talk only about the law here in this forum. The law may very well put TK liable but it is still not their fault. No other carrier would have transferred the pax to Morocco. Whether OP have a legal case or not is one question. Whether TK was at fault here is another.
#73
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: VIE
Programs: SAS EBS / *A Silver, Hilton Diamond, Radisson VIP, IHG Platinum Ambassador
Posts: 4,219
If I misunderstand entry rules (e.g. due to the use of an unreliable source of information) and arrive to the airport without proper documents, I will bear consequences in form of denied boarding.
If an airline misunderstands entry rules (for the same reason - using unreliable source of information), I don't see why they should not bear consequences, which in this case mean at least a payout of denied boarding compensation.
Airlines like to make people believe that they have a right to do anything, while pax don't have any rights at all, but that's simply not the case, at least not in Europe.
If an airline misunderstands entry rules (for the same reason - using unreliable source of information), I don't see why they should not bear consequences, which in this case mean at least a payout of denied boarding compensation.
Airlines like to make people believe that they have a right to do anything, while pax don't have any rights at all, but that's simply not the case, at least not in Europe.
#74
Join Date: Apr 2010
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I don't agree. It is up to pax/it is the responsibility of pax to fulfill all immigration requirements; there is no obligation on the part of carriers to transport pax if there is (reasonable) risk that they may be denied entry. As you mention the carrier will be responsible to transport the pax back and may even be heavily fined for bringing pax without them fulfilling entry requirements. So if TK had reasonable doubt that the pax would not be allowed entry to Morocco TK did right in denying the pax to board the flight. I'm not qualified in Moroccan entry requirements, visa etc so no qualified opinion on whether TK had reasonable doubt, but if pax didn't bring proof that they were exempt from visa requirements I believe we are close to a situation where TK could have reasonable doubts. Also if TIMAC is not clear about this.
There's not a word in the regulation about carrier's "reasonable doubts". It's up to the airline to do their job and understand the entry requirements. The only thing that matters is whether the passenger has or hasn't proper documents for the destination.
#75
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 769
I don't agree. It is up to pax/it is the responsibility of pax to fulfill all immigration requirements; there is no obligation on the part of carriers to transport pax if there is (reasonable) risk that they may be denied entry. As you mention the carrier will be responsible to transport the pax back and may even be heavily fined for bringing pax without them fulfilling entry requirements. So if TK had reasonable doubt that the pax would not be allowed entry to Morocco TK did right in denying the pax to board the flight. I'm not qualified in Moroccan entry requirements, visa etc so no qualified opinion on whether TK had reasonable doubt, but if pax didn't bring proof that they were exempt from visa requirements I believe we are close to a situation where TK could have reasonable doubts. Also if TIMAC is not clear about this.
Sure, TK relies on a system (TIMATIC) with incorrect data in it, but that doesn’t get them off the hook, since they chose the system. If they’d chosen to rely on Wikipedia would you feel differently? TIMATIC has no more force in law than any other source they could choose.
TK can pursue their own claim with IATA for their costs incurred due to TIMATIC being wrong, if they want (but they probably can’t as I’m sure IATA has made them agree that TIMATIC is not guaranteed correct).
IMO the pax has a perfectly valid claim.