Successful Legal Cases Against Turkish Airlines
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Cyprus
Programs: THY Elite Plus, Aegean Gold, LH FTL. Former BA Gold, Air France Platinum, Czech Gold, United PE.
Posts: 644
Successful Legal Cases Against Turkish Airlines
It is notoriously difficult to persuade Turkish Airlines to pay compensation for flight delays, cancellations and baggage loss. In my experience at least, they always come up with an excuse like weather problems, industrial action, air traffic control delays, safety-related mechanical repairs and IST airport delays which, they claim, precludes them having to pay compensation under EU law. They then studiously avoid replying to any subsequent correspondence.
Given this contestatory TK approach to customer relations, it would be useful if FT members could share their experiences in making successful legal claims against the airline. Please post details of the nature of your claim, how TK initially responded, the way in which you took legal action, and what compensation you received.
Given this contestatory TK approach to customer relations, it would be useful if FT members could share their experiences in making successful legal claims against the airline. Please post details of the nature of your claim, how TK initially responded, the way in which you took legal action, and what compensation you received.
#2
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Cyprus
Programs: THY Elite Plus, Aegean Gold, LH FTL. Former BA Gold, Air France Platinum, Czech Gold, United PE.
Posts: 644
In May 2015, I flew in V class on the routing TXL-IST-BOM. The flight out of TXL was unfortunately delayed two hours due to 'late arrival of inbound aircraft' and I therefore missed the onward connection at IST to BOM. The TK lounge were admittedly quite efficient in arranging an alternative itinerary via Doha to BOM (on TK and Jet Airways). Nevertheless, I was still 6 hours delayed and my baggage was lost for a day.
TK claimed that no compensation was due because the delay was due to congestion at IST and mechanical problems. Subsequent e-mail correspondence then went unanswered. I then commissioned Flight Delay GmbH to take action on my behalf (there are several such companies but this one was chosen because it is Berlin based). Flight Delay received exactly the same BS as me and compensation was denied. They were thus forced to take legal action in the Berlin courts and the judge subsequently awarded €600 compensation plus costs.
It is only when such legal action becomes the norm rather than the exception that TK will start treating customer complaints with the seriousness that they deserve.
TK claimed that no compensation was due because the delay was due to congestion at IST and mechanical problems. Subsequent e-mail correspondence then went unanswered. I then commissioned Flight Delay GmbH to take action on my behalf (there are several such companies but this one was chosen because it is Berlin based). Flight Delay received exactly the same BS as me and compensation was denied. They were thus forced to take legal action in the Berlin courts and the judge subsequently awarded €600 compensation plus costs.
It is only when such legal action becomes the norm rather than the exception that TK will start treating customer complaints with the seriousness that they deserve.
#3
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
This is not a particularly uncommon scenario for EC 261/2004 and has little to do with TK. The scenario here, where the delay giving rise to EC 261/2004 delay compensation is on the non-EU segment, e.g. IST-BOM, remains contentious and it there is no particular downside to the carrier in denying compensation until ordered to pay.
Some studies suggest that less than 2% of possible EC 261/2004 claims are actually made. Who knows what % are actually pursued to a judgment.
Had TK done a bank transfer to OP for EUR 600 a few days after the claim was made, that only encourages claims. Here, OP had to know enough to make a claim and to know that he could claim even though the ultimate delay ocurred for a non-EU segment. He also had to pursue a claim and presumably forego a goodly percentage of his EUR 600.
TK, on the other hand, is out the same EUR 600 it would have been out however many months earlier and none the worse for wear. At each stage, some number of people drop by the wayside and TK pockets that EUR 600.
If you were TK's CFO, which strategy would you pursue? How is it any different on other carriers?
Some studies suggest that less than 2% of possible EC 261/2004 claims are actually made. Who knows what % are actually pursued to a judgment.
Had TK done a bank transfer to OP for EUR 600 a few days after the claim was made, that only encourages claims. Here, OP had to know enough to make a claim and to know that he could claim even though the ultimate delay ocurred for a non-EU segment. He also had to pursue a claim and presumably forego a goodly percentage of his EUR 600.
TK, on the other hand, is out the same EUR 600 it would have been out however many months earlier and none the worse for wear. At each stage, some number of people drop by the wayside and TK pockets that EUR 600.
If you were TK's CFO, which strategy would you pursue? How is it any different on other carriers?
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Cyprus
Programs: THY Elite Plus, Aegean Gold, LH FTL. Former BA Gold, Air France Platinum, Czech Gold, United PE.
Posts: 644
This is not a particularly uncommon scenario for EC 261/2004 and has little to do with TK. The scenario here, where the delay giving rise to EC 261/2004 delay compensation is on the non-EU segment, e.g. IST-BOM, remains contentious and it there is no particular downside to the carrier in denying compensation until ordered to pay.
Some studies suggest that less than 2% of possible EC 261/2004 claims are actually made. Who knows what % are actually pursued to a judgment.
Had TK done a bank transfer to OP for EUR 600 a few days after the claim was made, that only encourages claims. Here, OP had to know enough to make a claim and to know that he could claim even though the ultimate delay ocurred for a non-EU segment. He also had to pursue a claim and presumably forego a goodly percentage of his EUR 600.
TK, on the other hand, is out the same EUR 600 it would have been out however many months earlier and none the worse for wear. At each stage, some number of people drop by the wayside and TK pockets that EUR 600.
If you were TK's CFO, which strategy would you pursue? How is it any different on other carriers?
Some studies suggest that less than 2% of possible EC 261/2004 claims are actually made. Who knows what % are actually pursued to a judgment.
Had TK done a bank transfer to OP for EUR 600 a few days after the claim was made, that only encourages claims. Here, OP had to know enough to make a claim and to know that he could claim even though the ultimate delay ocurred for a non-EU segment. He also had to pursue a claim and presumably forego a goodly percentage of his EUR 600.
TK, on the other hand, is out the same EUR 600 it would have been out however many months earlier and none the worse for wear. At each stage, some number of people drop by the wayside and TK pockets that EUR 600.
If you were TK's CFO, which strategy would you pursue? How is it any different on other carriers?
My experience is that many airlines will now pay EU 261/2004 claims when it is clear that liability exists. Of course, they will pay only when asked. TK stands out for its blatant stonewalling of claims and aggressive denial of liability. So much so, that I previously had a claims company tell me that they would handle any claim apart from one with TK. Maintaining a wild west strategy to paying out claims is not good corporate strategy.
#5
It is notoriously difficult to persuade Turkish Airlines to pay compensation for flight delays, cancellations and baggage loss. In my experience at least, they always come up with an excuse like weather problems, industrial action, air traffic control delays, safety-related mechanical repairs and IST airport delays which, they claim, precludes them having to pay compensation under EU law. They then studiously avoid replying to any subsequent correspondence.
From what I heard, airlines have become very creative in denying these claims. I don't think TK is unique or stands out in particular in this regard. The onus has always been on the passenger to prove their claim, no one is going to hand you a cake on a gold plate just because you request one. Always assume you are going to have to fight for it but don't seek an unnecessary confrontation if you can settle it amicably.
TK claimed that no compensation was due because the delay was due to congestion at IST and mechanical problems. Subsequent e-mail correspondence then went unanswered. I then commissioned Flight Delay GmbH to take action on my behalf (there are several such companies but this one was chosen because it is Berlin based). Flight Delay received exactly the same BS as me and compensation was denied. They were thus forced to take legal action in the Berlin courts and the judge subsequently awarded €600 compensation plus costs.
It is only when such legal action becomes the norm rather than the exception that TK will start treating customer complaints with the seriousness that they deserve.
It is only when such legal action becomes the norm rather than the exception that TK will start treating customer complaints with the seriousness that they deserve.
That said, if I may add something, I think it would always be ideal to contact your airline's local sales office. In the case of TK, if they have a sales office in your city or country, contact them first. Why? The generic customer service handled out of IST is dismal, partly because the people handling them there have likely become insensitive to these complaints due to the volume they receive. However, the local sales office located in your country may understand your local norms and laws better than their headoffice in TK. They may be more aware of the legal risks than the robots in IST. If you are suing TK, chances are you are putting their local office in your country or city on notice since it's unlikely the court judgement can be enforced against TK in Turkey.
This is not a particularly uncommon scenario for EC 261/2004 and has little to do with TK. The scenario here, where the delay giving rise to EC 261/2004 delay compensation is on the non-EU segment, e.g. IST-BOM, remains contentious and it there is no particular downside to the carrier in denying compensation until ordered to pay.
The tricky part with TK is it's unclear if any EU National Transportation agencies will accept claims against TK since Turkey is not bound by EC 261 unless the flight is originating from an EU country. In the cases of IST to any non-EU destinations, the lawsuit will likely be centered on misleading or false advertisement or false guarantees. Remember, TK is not being sued for violating EC 261 since it only applies on EU departing flights but it's being sued for failing to honor a published claim / guarantee which the consumer relied on to do business with TK. If you haven't done so yet, make sure you download TK's customer service plan pamphlet on this regard and save it somewhere. But to advance this claim, it will depend on where you reside, how/where you purchased your ticket and etc. For example, someone who flew BKK-IST-CAI, bought his ticket with a U.S. online travel agency but he is actually a Brit residing in Japan, where can he sue TK? Tough question, I don't know. My situation was pretty straightforward, I bought my ticket and reside in the same non-EU jurisdiction and my local laws permit me to sue a company in my local court, as opposed to having to take it to Turkey, so for me, had TK resist in anyway my claim against them, I would have the upper hand in suing TK in a country for which I know the laws better than they do. I don't think my local sales office who immediately agreed to pay me within a few hours of me sending them a polite e-mail (no threats whatsoever, not even legal action) was doing it for charity, they knew the local laws and didn't want to fight a futile battle.
Had TK done a bank transfer to OP for EUR 600 a few days after the claim was made, that only encourages claims. Here, OP had to know enough to make a claim and to know that he could claim even though the ultimate delay ocurred for a non-EU segment. He also had to pursue a claim and presumably forego a goodly percentage of his EUR 600.
My experience is that many airlines will now pay EU 261/2004 claims when it is clear that liability exists. Of course, they will pay only when asked. TK stands out for its blatant stonewalling of claims and aggressive denial of liability. So much so, that I previously had a claims company tell me that they would handle any claim apart from one with TK. Maintaining a wild west strategy to paying out claims is not good corporate strategy.
Last edited by Guava; Feb 29, 2016 at 5:16 pm Reason: typos
#7
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3
I'm glad to share a successful claim of compensation from TK recently. My trip on 2 Jan 2016 was from OTP-IST-DOH and the first leg was delayed by more than 3 hours, causing me to miss my connecting flight and I was practically going in circles before getting to the lounge and spent the next 5 hours sorting out the mess (which include rebooking DOH-SIN flights)
There was a QR flight that departs to DOH 2 hours after I have landed at IST and I practically have to stand my ground and ask for them to rebook on this flight as the next direct flight to DOH will be some 18 hours later. The lounge staff called an internal line for help but it seems their ticketing department was unwilling to rebook me on anything else except on their own TK metal citing mine was a award ticket even when I told them I was willing to sit in Y when i was ticketed in J. They refused to rebook me to SIN as well as I was supposed to catch a flight from DOH to SIN because the flight distance was greater than my booked ticket. I was also denied the usage of a phone though their CS manual states otherwise and was told to connect on lounge Wifi to make calls. Eventually I was put up in a hotel for half a day and rebooked on the next TK flight out which was 18 hours later, hence reaching DOH with a massive delay and managed to take another flight back to SIN.
My bags did not make it back with me too, only resurfacing nearly 3 days later. I lodged a complaint when I got back and cited EU261 and made my claim for EUR400 and reimbursement for IDD calls incurred with proof of bill provided and their first 3 replies was to reject my claim outright citing safety threat with incoming flight to OTP. When I pressed them for proof of the safety threat, they then changed their reason to that on 1st/2nd Jan, most flights were delayed or canceled due to intensive snow, which is considered unsafe to operate the flight.
Nearly giving up at this stage, I reviewed the correspondences and I realise they keep using the incoming flight as a reason to reject my claim. Hence I framed my final reply to them that my beef with them was that they did not live up to their CS standards by not rebooking me on the next available flight on QR despite me begging them for it at the lounge and the flight actually took off with minimal delay, hence they cannot claim weather or safety issues as a means to reject my claim. If they had rebooked me before I had arrived in IST (since I had >3 hours delay) or while I was in the lounge with 2 hours before QR flight departs, I would not be arguing with them now.
I didn't hear from them for like 2 weeks and had proceeded to file a claim with a claims specialist site which actually rejected my claim citing snowfall too. I was then surprised to receive TK's reply a day later apologising for misinformation and incomplete result for my feedback and offered me my full EU261 compensation and little extra compensation for my IDD calls charges in the form of a EMD and was told to contact a local sales office which I did and is now waiting for the money via bank transfer. Persistence is key probably? And also framing your argument well instead of giving them an open-ended case might work better.
There was a QR flight that departs to DOH 2 hours after I have landed at IST and I practically have to stand my ground and ask for them to rebook on this flight as the next direct flight to DOH will be some 18 hours later. The lounge staff called an internal line for help but it seems their ticketing department was unwilling to rebook me on anything else except on their own TK metal citing mine was a award ticket even when I told them I was willing to sit in Y when i was ticketed in J. They refused to rebook me to SIN as well as I was supposed to catch a flight from DOH to SIN because the flight distance was greater than my booked ticket. I was also denied the usage of a phone though their CS manual states otherwise and was told to connect on lounge Wifi to make calls. Eventually I was put up in a hotel for half a day and rebooked on the next TK flight out which was 18 hours later, hence reaching DOH with a massive delay and managed to take another flight back to SIN.
My bags did not make it back with me too, only resurfacing nearly 3 days later. I lodged a complaint when I got back and cited EU261 and made my claim for EUR400 and reimbursement for IDD calls incurred with proof of bill provided and their first 3 replies was to reject my claim outright citing safety threat with incoming flight to OTP. When I pressed them for proof of the safety threat, they then changed their reason to that on 1st/2nd Jan, most flights were delayed or canceled due to intensive snow, which is considered unsafe to operate the flight.
Nearly giving up at this stage, I reviewed the correspondences and I realise they keep using the incoming flight as a reason to reject my claim. Hence I framed my final reply to them that my beef with them was that they did not live up to their CS standards by not rebooking me on the next available flight on QR despite me begging them for it at the lounge and the flight actually took off with minimal delay, hence they cannot claim weather or safety issues as a means to reject my claim. If they had rebooked me before I had arrived in IST (since I had >3 hours delay) or while I was in the lounge with 2 hours before QR flight departs, I would not be arguing with them now.
I didn't hear from them for like 2 weeks and had proceeded to file a claim with a claims specialist site which actually rejected my claim citing snowfall too. I was then surprised to receive TK's reply a day later apologising for misinformation and incomplete result for my feedback and offered me my full EU261 compensation and little extra compensation for my IDD calls charges in the form of a EMD and was told to contact a local sales office which I did and is now waiting for the money via bank transfer. Persistence is key probably? And also framing your argument well instead of giving them an open-ended case might work better.
#8
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1
Turkish ask me to pay 1546 Euro extra for my ticket
After I bought the ticket I spent some money for my vacation
one month later Turkish cancelled my flight. I had no choice and accepted one day delay
after some time Turkish re-schedule my flight. I asked them to put be back on that flight. surprise. for two tickets they ask us to pay 1546 euro euro (1616 USD at the moment of writing) because, in their opinion, this is a new reservation
can I take them to court?
thank you!
one month later Turkish cancelled my flight. I had no choice and accepted one day delay
after some time Turkish re-schedule my flight. I asked them to put be back on that flight. surprise. for two tickets they ask us to pay 1546 euro euro (1616 USD at the moment of writing) because, in their opinion, this is a new reservation
can I take them to court?
thank you!
#9
Join Date: May 2016
Location: IST, LHR
Programs: TK E+, AA PLAT
Posts: 481
After I bought the ticket I spent some money for my vacation
one month later Turkish cancelled my flight. I had no choice and accepted one day delay
after some time Turkish re-schedule my flight. I asked them to put be back on that flight. surprise. for two tickets they ask us to pay 1546 euro euro (1616 USD at the moment of writing) because, in their opinion, this is a new reservation
can I take them to court?
thank you!
one month later Turkish cancelled my flight. I had no choice and accepted one day delay
after some time Turkish re-schedule my flight. I asked them to put be back on that flight. surprise. for two tickets they ask us to pay 1546 euro euro (1616 USD at the moment of writing) because, in their opinion, this is a new reservation
can I take them to court?
thank you!
Did you accept the flight change and have them re issue your ticket? In which case they have fulfilled their requirements to you. As far as I understand.
#10
Join Date: May 2016
Location: IST, LHR
Programs: TK E+, AA PLAT
Posts: 481
After I bought the ticket I spent some money for my vacation
one month later Turkish cancelled my flight. I had no choice and accepted one day delay
after some time Turkish re-schedule my flight. I asked them to put be back on that flight. surprise. for two tickets they ask us to pay 1546 euro euro (1616 USD at the moment of writing) because, in their opinion, this is a new reservation
can I take them to court?
thank you!
one month later Turkish cancelled my flight. I had no choice and accepted one day delay
after some time Turkish re-schedule my flight. I asked them to put be back on that flight. surprise. for two tickets they ask us to pay 1546 euro euro (1616 USD at the moment of writing) because, in their opinion, this is a new reservation
can I take them to court?
thank you!
Did you accept the flight change and have them re issue your ticket? In which case they have fulfilled their requirements to you. As far as I understand.
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 11,769
Asking to be put back on the re-instated flight will be treated as a voluntary change in your situation i.e. you have to pay. Once the new itinerary is accepted (despite being inconvenient) any subsequent rebooking requests are voluntary changes. Unless there is a schedule change to your new itinerary I dont see how you can get back on the original flight without paying change fee and upfare.
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,005
After I bought the ticket I spent some money for my vacation
one month later Turkish cancelled my flight. I had no choice and accepted one day delay
after some time Turkish re-schedule my flight. I asked them to put be back on that flight. surprise. for two tickets they ask us to pay 1546 euro euro (1616 USD at the moment of writing) because, in their opinion, this is a new reservation
can I take them to court?
thank you!
one month later Turkish cancelled my flight. I had no choice and accepted one day delay
after some time Turkish re-schedule my flight. I asked them to put be back on that flight. surprise. for two tickets they ask us to pay 1546 euro euro (1616 USD at the moment of writing) because, in their opinion, this is a new reservation
can I take them to court?
thank you!
But Turkish can be difficult to deal with. I'd suggest you connect with their social media team, keeping the communication short and to the point. If you get nowhere, accept the situation as it is. A court case would be uncertain, tortuous and expensive.
#13
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: YUL
Programs: Skymiles Silver Medallion
Posts: 955
Asking to be put back on the re-instated flight will be treated as a voluntary change in your situation i.e. you have to pay. Once the new itinerary is accepted (despite being inconvenient) any subsequent rebooking requests are voluntary changes. Unless there is a schedule change to your new itinerary I dont see how you can get back on the original flight without paying change fee and upfare.
My advice? Make your decisions about who you fly with based on the customer service you receive.
#14
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,503
I had my EU-IST flight cancelled and was put on the next EU-IST flight few hours later. Reached my final destination on time (BKK). Sent complaint to my local station manager. Got free EU-IST-TURKEY ticket vouchers valid one year. I was quite happy with this. Probably something to do with the fact that i used to fly TK quite a lot.
#15
Join Date: May 2016
Location: IST, LHR
Programs: TK E+, AA PLAT
Posts: 481
I had my EU-IST flight cancelled and was put on the next EU-IST flight few hours later. Reached my final destination on time (BKK). Sent complaint to my local station manager. Got free EU-IST-TURKEY ticket vouchers valid one year. I was quite happy with this. Probably something to do with the fact that i used to fly TK quite a lot.