SFFlyman

I have flown on a couple of European airlines (Iberia & the other I forget) which had installed a different type of seat in coach. The top part of the seat in back jutted out further than the bottom part, leaving room for knees even with the seat fully reclined. I wondered why other airlines had not adopted the same technology. I was very comfortable even in the middle seat with the person in front fully reclined (I'm 6'4). Off subject but still relevant... on a couple of Alitalia flights, the middle seats were a bit wider than the window and aisle seats. People were actually requesting these seats. IMHO that is a great idea for middle seats.

Fredd

Mrs. Fredd's chronic back problems require that she recline her seat just a leeeetle bit for much of the flight, even when we occasionally fly in business seats. Doesn't anybody notice how most airline seats lean you forward too much when fully upright? Maybe you need to have a certain kind of neck/back problem to be affected.

Oddly enough the non-reclining seats on most of the smaller planes are shaped better and it isn't a problem.

A little bit of the Golden Rule would go a long way in this and some other aspects of the flying experience, e.g. crowding to get on and off, taking too many carry-ons... I feel far more hostility about those habits, but I guess it depends how you're inclined.

Cheers,
Fredd

Spiff

Umm... under the seat in front of me. Where do yours go? I'm too tall for them not to go underneath the seat in front of me.

Ginger K

So true. It's a "do unto others" issue for me. I don't recline into someone's lap, and I hope the person in front of me feels the same.

elCheapoDeluxe

If someone behind me attempts to use this "knee-defender", he has better also have a "nostril-defender", because I am going to ram it up his nose.

CanuckFlyer

I have definitely noticed that. I find sliding a pillow behind my back for additional lumbar support helps a bit. But I always end up with neck pain after a flight from having my head jut out too far for too long.

yknot

WOW - I just read this thread all the way through. The airlines have managed to get their customers sniping at each other. The problem is pitch and seat width and the airlines will keep trying to pack em in tighter. The airlines would like you to believe that air rage is the individuals fault. It's the airlines fault. See what is happening here?

Every week I go to the ariport and i see more and more people arriving angry, expecting the worse, and ready for confrontation. Between the ailrines rules, crummy seats, lousy or nonexistant food, cattle car loading, the TSA, outrageous parking rates, crowded overheads, unlocked luggage demands, it's no wonder conversations like this thread occur and people invent stupid devices like the "knee defender".

This is just another thing that will cause an in flight blow-up. Just what we all need. Everyone defending their "rights" in the middle of a cigar tube at 30,000 feet.

pinniped

I agree that traveling today is stressful. I agree that airlines are more and more frequently treating customers are their enemy. However, the customers shouldn't treat each other as the enemy.

Oddly enough, I actually find flying today to be better in some ways than I did in the late 90's. More flights arrive on time. Fewer flights are 100% sold out. Heck, the two biggest airlines even have more room in coach than they did in 1999 on a lot of their planes. Airlines are, in general, capable of handling the passenger volume of 2003, when they clearly weren't capable of handling 1999 loads.

The problems of the TSA, parking, or lousy food aren't an excuse to behave cruelly to the poor soul sitting behind you.

Fredd

or the one sitting in front of you, or on either side, etc.

UALOneKPlus

SAT Lawyer

He also better be wearing a cup (or a "groin-defender", if you prefer).

The sad thing about the recline/don't recline dilemma is that it is a no-win situation. If you recline, you are taking away precious space from the passenger behind you and implicitly justifying a decision of the passenger in front of you to do the same. But if you don't recline, it's nearly impossible to catch a few winks (it may be anyway, even with full recline, mind you) because the "fully upright and locked position" in nearly intolerable. Which is why the industry needs to get a clue and make sure that economy class seat pitch doesn't violate basic norms of human comfort and decency.

Mary2e

I didn't want to mention it before... but I can give you two examples of inconsiderate louts sitting in the row in front...

My husdand had a full recliner on a flight from EWR to MCO. Any of you taking those flights know just how tight those seats are. Well, he had to go to the bathroom & was sitting in the aisle seat. He tried as hard as he could, but could not get out of the seat without grabbing the seat in front of him. The recliner became indignant that he was awakened. My husband told him that he couldn't move without touching the seat. The recliner said tough he wanted to sleep. Well, my bladder had to be emptied every 15 minutes on that flight from then on (I was in the middle). No sleep for him. This is the flight caused me to make a full recliner as uncomfortable as possible - and also to never recline my seat more than an inch.

Second case... my dad passed out on a flight to Hawaii last year. A doctor came to his seat and was checking him out. Luckily, the planes to HI have a little better pitch, but still, for the entire flight, the very young & skinny recliner in front of him DID NOT MOVE HIS SEAT. The doctor kept on coming back & the flight attendants kept on checking on him (kudos to all of them). The inconsiderate idiot just stayed nice and comfy (he wasn't asleep, just watching the movie). (dad was fine-thankfully).

So, to all of you that thing it's your priviledge to make other people uncomfortable... don't compain when YOU'RE MADE UNCOMFORTABLE...

There.... I feel much better now .

Mary

SEA_Tigger

Absolutely. Air New Zealand seems to get the hint with their 34" pitch throught out Economy Class cabin. And UA's 35" in Economy Plus allow "full recline" without "kneecapping" the person behind you.

AA's, Song's and JetBlue's 33" are good compromises.

CO's and DL's 30-31" should be criminal.

I don't recline in Economy and Domestic First (or very little - less than 10°) because I find it less comfortable than being straight-up. Fortunately, International First and Business are not an issue, since legroom is so generous.

[This message has been edited by SEA_Tigger (edited 10-02-2003).]

tods27

I am amazed at the vehemence of the replys in this thread. While I do sympathize with people who are tall, I, as a rule, recline my seat fully as soon as allowed after takeoff. The only time I have ever been asked to put my seat up was on a United 762 in F class. I was annoyed simply due to the fact that the woman who asked wanted to use her computer, but spent the whole flight yakking with her seatmate (not using her computer). I have found that in United E+ (as noted by SEA_Tigger) there is plenty of room and have never been asked to limit my recline. I am fairly certain that one or two people jammed their knees into my seat to stop it from reclining prior to E+, but it was never worth the effort to fight about it (and anyway, all it takes is for them to stand up, and my seat can go all the way back.)

I am amazed at the comments about reclining as "rude" and "inconsiderate". These are incorrect generalizations. I do agree that someone who reclines their seat at high velocity could be considered inconsiderate, but what exactly do you expect from everyone? Do you expect me to get up and look at the person behind me to determine if I should recline or not? If I choose to recline and you are behind me, don't yell at me, simply ask nicely if I wouldn't mind compromizing on a slightly more upright position. Yelling, kicking and shaking my seat is definitely "rude" and "inconsiderate" behavior by any definition.

goldmedallionflyer

Great to know your dad was fine!

I am puzzled, though, at how a reclined seat, which could at most contact his knees, caused your dad to pass out. I's 6'3" and have returned home with bruised knees on more flights than I care to count - but I've never been even close to a blackout from seatback applied pressure to my knees. Self induced stress caused the blackout - maybe - but the reclined seat position directly at cause for his blackout ... highly unlikely.

GMF