Is this cabotage?
Jan 18, 2019 | 3:49 pm
#16
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I think that the Korean airlines are the one's you will want to be wary of based on this TPG article. After all they are the one's that will be fined by the US for allowing travel.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/illega...mistake-story/
https://thepointsguy.com/news/illega...mistake-story/
Jan 18, 2019 | 3:50 pm
#17
Join Date: Oct 2008
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There are some people who live near a major Canadian city who fly out of Canada to a US destination. Like someone living in Buffalo choosing a cheaper direct flight to LA out of Toronto than a more expensive connecting flight out of Buffalo.
Jan 18, 2019 | 4:27 pm
#18
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Isn't it usually the reverse? Canadians who drive across to the U.S. airport to fly to a U.S. destination because of the AC monopoly plus higher taxes in Canada. I have friends who live a little east of Montreal who use Burlington as their home airport. Easy drive and usually much lower fares.
Jan 18, 2019 | 6:56 pm
#19
Join Date: Apr 2017
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Cabotage basically means using one or more foreign airlines AND not using a domestic airline to travel between two domestic destinations. In the US it is expressly disallowed. GUM is a domestic destination, thus you can't fly CLE-YYZ-ICN-GUM without having at least one of these segments be on a US carrier, as you'd be using two foreign airlines (AC and OS) to go between two US cities. This is similar to how you can't buy a ticket between JFK and SFO via YYZ.
If you can't fit a UA segment on that ticket that you want to buy, you can buy two separate round-trip tickets (e.g. CLE-ICN and ICN-GUM), which is not considered cabotage. Just be aware that you'll have to claim and re-check bags in ICN and you would not be protected in case of misconnects.
See DL's explanation here.
If you can't fit a UA segment on that ticket that you want to buy, you can buy two separate round-trip tickets (e.g. CLE-ICN and ICN-GUM), which is not considered cabotage. Just be aware that you'll have to claim and re-check bags in ICN and you would not be protected in case of misconnects.
See DL's explanation here.
Is this not permitted only in the US or is this a global thing?
Jan 18, 2019 | 8:56 pm
#20
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Jan 18, 2019 | 11:09 pm
#21
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Jan 19, 2019 | 1:05 am
#22
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Isn't it usually the reverse? Canadians who drive across to the U.S. airport to fly to a U.S. destination because of the AC monopoly plus higher taxes in Canada. I have friends who live a little east of Montreal who use Burlington as their home airport. Easy drive and usually much lower fares.
Jan 19, 2019 | 3:50 am
#23
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SYD-MEL tag to be added in December has the details.
Jan 26, 2019 | 5:15 pm
#24
Join Date: Jun 2012
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no, it may still be considered cabotage. ICN-GUM airline may have ways to detect this
see: https://thepointsguy.com/news/illega...mistake-story/
this is true, but you may be forced to layover for longer (and be inconvenienced)
somewhat "common-sense" logic - someone flying at least 8 extra hours (6 hour stopover AND the additional time) for EWR-YYZ-LAX vs going EWR-LAX directly
if you try to book USA-canada-USA on air canada, you see a warning
Important: your selected itinerary originates in one U.S. city and ends in another U.S. city. This type of itinerary is only valid if you are planning a stop in a Canadian city (e.g. for business, tourism or personal visits).
Please note that your itinerary may be invalid and travel will be denied if the Canadian city in your itinerary is used solely as an onward connection.
Please note that your itinerary may be invalid and travel will be denied if the Canadian city in your itinerary is used solely as an onward connection.
EWR-YYZ-BOS (3 hr stopover) - argue you have to drop off documents at YYZ and no stupid person wants to take 6 hours instead of driving (3 hour) or flying (1 hour)
EWR-YYZ-LAX (3 hr stopover) - tricky
for korea, looks like their "common-sense" logic is 96 hours, since a "legal" non-cabotage routing connects you via ICN (or asia) regardless
Last edited by paperwastage; Jan 26, 2019 at 5:32 pm
Jan 28, 2019 | 8:45 am
#26
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It's basically a global thing. The only place worldwide where you see large-scale passenger cabotage is among the EU countries -- EU carriers are allowed to operate domestic routes in other EU countries thanks to the common market. There are a few other country pairs where it's technically allowed but not really utilized, such as between Australia and New Zealand.
Mar 31, 2019 | 5:33 pm
#27
Join Date: Mar 2019
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Another cabotage question: I’m looking at flying to Saipan on DL 171 MSP-ICN, overnight ICN and then continue the next morning on a separate ticket via JeJu Air to Saipan. Will this be a problem with the Jeju flight? I think I should be ok since I’m arriving into ICN on Delta equipment but not sure about the separate ticket/overnighting/Jeju Air. The return is also Jeju Air to ICN but then I head to Japan for a few days before returning stateside on DL. There is an earlier flight to Saipan but it arrives 0340 and I’d rather not spend 2 nights in a row sleeping on a plane.
I’ve checked with Delta and they “think” I should be ok, but then I had to explain the cabotage issue to them since they were unaware. I also contacted Jeju Air via chat which wasn’t much help either. Both airlines said I should contact immigration, which I also did and they told me to talk to the airlines! Can someone please help me out of the circular loop I’m stuck in?
I’ve checked with Delta and they “think” I should be ok, but then I had to explain the cabotage issue to them since they were unaware. I also contacted Jeju Air via chat which wasn’t much help either. Both airlines said I should contact immigration, which I also did and they told me to talk to the airlines! Can someone please help me out of the circular loop I’m stuck in?
Mar 31, 2019 | 6:12 pm
#29
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There is no cabotage issue. You are flying on a US carrier from the US to Korea and then a non-US carrier from Korea to the US. DL has no reason to know that the other ticket exists and the other carrier has no reason to know that the DL ticket exists. The only possible exception to that is that DL may ask to see your onwards ticket to meet Korean entry requirements and Korean authorities may ask to see the onwards ticket to see the same. Have a paper printout handy for that sole purpose and then only if asked.
For the benefit of others, do not ever call a carrier to ask questions such as this. Front line customer service staff have no competence and no authority. All you will have done is manage to flag your ticker for scrutiny. If there is a problem, nobody can fix it and if there is not a problem there is not a problem.
For the benefit of others, do not ever call a carrier to ask questions such as this. Front line customer service staff have no competence and no authority. All you will have done is manage to flag your ticker for scrutiny. If there is a problem, nobody can fix it and if there is not a problem there is not a problem.
Apr 1, 2019 | 9:06 am
#30
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There's also a reciprocal cabotage deal between the UK and Singapore if I recall correctly. Obviously not the most exciting pair of countries for that sort of arrangement.