mfkne

I was convinced we work for the same company until your statement of affection

We have the same policy. Downside for the company: I will not work during the flight and I will arrive one day early.

maksimfa

Simple answer, don't like the company or the policies, don't work there.

If you work for yourself, you can write your own ticket. The reality is... most people today are far too comfy, and entitled. Not many years ago, air travel was super expensive, or not even possible.

A lot of my travel right now is paid for by people who want my business, and even though I have high limits, I still try to pick the cheapest flight. The only times where I would spend more is if I must be there at a certain time, and flying in day before plus hotel would end up costing more.

The question is where do you draw the line? Is it a waste of money for domestic but good for international? Or do you base it on time changes? or duration of flight? Is JFK-LHR business worthy but say JFK to SEA or SFO not?

I think people who travel and don't pay for it out of pocket will always find a reason to complain about something. Most business owners put the value somewhere.

I think giving someone a Business class ticket for a job well done is a great idea... but to have them expect it? Eh, don't know.

But to say it is cruel and unusual is just a ludicrous statement. That would be like me complaining that my BMW has only a heated steering wheel and seats, and not cooled like in a Mercedes.

When I pay for my own travel, it is always in coach, and will use miles to upgrade or cash.... when I am flying paid, I do not expect F or J, and even when my rental cars are covered, I don't complain about it when parking is not, or I decide to upgrade to a dreamcar, etc.

I always try to make the best of every trip, no matter where I go and look at traveling as a perk... If someone is sick and tired of traveling, perhaps it is time to look for an alternative career or place to work where you don't have to.

Take a step back.... You can get on an airplane, and be almost anywhere in the world within 24 hours.... how freaking cool is that? You couldn't dream about it a few decades ago. Now we are complaining about a few hours sitting on our butts.

In the 50's and 60's Business people were on the road, and many of which slept in cars.... that were designed for sales people to sleep in.

Ber2dca

While none of that is false, there's another side to the coin, namely that as a business you might want to retain staff. Experienced staff with a lot of expertise might not be easily replaceable and high staff turnover can lead to significant problems in a number of areas.

References to how cool it is that you can be in Hong Kong in 13 hours and how things were for travelling salesmen in the 50s are not likely to keep performers around who could have a better offer on the table.

If cost minimization is the only thing that drives your HR approach, you'll have a problem sooner or later.

zkzkz

I was once negotiating a salary package with a company and asked about the travel policy. It was Y only. I explained that this was going to cost them more in the long run. I was still going to book Y+ and pay the difference out of my own pocket out of *post* tax money. And subtract that money (including a healthy margin) from the salary package they were offering for comparison purposes. They had to bump up the salary offer to be competitive.

Amazon in particular is famous for being stingy with its employees. It definitely hurts their recruiting and make it hard for them to attract the best talent. I've spoken to a number of people who have warned against working there as a result. I'm sure it varies from group to group but the reputation outside hurts.

pinniped

I think my math got lost in translation: I agree that most J seats are paid by someone on some type of revenue ticket. My "5%" figure was intended to be the total of all travelers, including those in the back or out there flying on the various all-Y airlines of this world. Not that 19 out of 20 J seats are occupied by award users and nonrevs.

If the ticket is bought in a J bucket, it likely has a big corp discount on it and the flier is likely in line to upgrade to F. If it's bought in restricted-biz or as a "Y-UP" type fare, the discount is less.

Certainly the airlines *do* sell a lot of their J seats, and even some of their F ones. Which is good for those of us who like to redeem the seats, because without any buyers at all we'd get a lot more all-coach configurations.

Tchiowa

I'm an independent consultant. I don't"negotiate" things like that. I have my daily/weekly rate, I stay in Marriott or equivalent hotels and I fly business class. If the company doesn't accept that, they don't hire me.

Osmo

I was reading a trip report earlier and the writer, who was sitting in J, posted something like, "Thankfully no one sat next to me, or in the aisle seat across the way". I'll be honest, my response was, Really? Someone sitting across the aisle from you in a fully decked out J would have been annoying? Precious much?

Now I know so much more, I prefer to get a top line price from our corp travel provider and then go work my own route with the carrier and seats I prefer.

tmiw

Last business trip was LAX-BNE in Y. My employer will only pay for J for upper level execs/W for everyone else (only upon approval and only if the flight is longer than 8 hours), and considering I don't really sleep in planes at all...yeah. On the other hand I don't really suffer jet lag, so maybe it balances out. Would be nice to have a lay-flat seat though but I can't justify using anything other than miles to pay for it for personal trips.

cdn1

A lot of developing world govt employees (such as mission staff) have to fly Y even when traveling a very long distance, all flights in Y.

KRSW

As long as those at the top are willing to do the same, I don't see anything wrong with it. We'd all rather fly F, but the majority of the seats on a plane are Y.

My company doesn't have any hard & fast rule about Y, J, F, but it's more based on common sense. Short 2 hr flight? It's going to be Y unless you can get J/F for a reasonable price. Usually we'll try to make the best of it and do JetBlue/Virgin and upgrade. Trans-con? That's J territory usually, often F, depends on prices, sometimes Y if prices are ridiculous.

Fortunately, by the time you add in baggage & other bogus fees to cattle class, J/F often become very competitive.

RSW to DUS? Depends entirely upon price. The owner of the company recently flew this route and it was ~$1200 for Y, $5800 for J/F. The owner had a code of their own: NFW -- he flew Y.

WillTravel

I know some posts mentioned people who procrastinate and end up with expensive economy flights. But isn't the likely reason that business plans can change so much, and you don't want to end up with a practically useless, expensive-to-change economy ticket?

roberino

Actually, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. I used to book Y flex tickets in case of changes to plans but got hauled over the coals for spending too much on air travel. A few months later I had to bin a non-refundable, non-flex ticket and got a similar treatment for wasting money. I pointed out the hypocrisy and ended up with a verbal warning for "being difficult". Thankfully my manager got fired shortly afterwards for "being difficult" and my warning was overturned, but the ticket silliness remains...

HMO

Maybe because they aren't allowed to purchase discounted J/F tickets, even when they can plan the trip, they don't bother to purchase Y tickets in advance.

brendog

.....

pinniped

That's certainly a "side effect" of booking late: a Y/B fare often ends up at the top of the upgrade queue, especially when combined with an elite status. Sometimes even assigns the F/J seat at booking time.