is it cruel when company policy only allow coach on 15-hour flight, even for the CEO?
#76
Join Date: May 2007
Location: IAD
Posts: 2,060
That policy works for me. Speaking as a non-executive professional who travels on business, I think that even if you're not closing million dollar deals, if you're important enough to send to a client site you should be important enough to arrive fresh and rested and able represent your employer in the best light.
#77
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
I worked for a company that always flew us overseas in J -- with the understanding that you jumped off the plane and went directly to work, do not pass go, do not collect hotel room key. As I sleep only fitfully on planes I would have preferred your deal.
#79
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: MEL
Programs: VAG
Posts: 1,865
I'm a scientist, working in academia. Furthermore I'm in Australia, so fifteen hours of flying to get somewhere is considered "not that far".
I've resigned myself to the fact that even freaking Nobel Laureates (of which i am not one) have to fly economy. I'm not happy with it, but I can't exactly see myself going off to work for some bank or management consultancy either.
The compensation is, I suppose, that I get to choose my own travel.
I've resigned myself to the fact that even freaking Nobel Laureates (of which i am not one) have to fly economy. I'm not happy with it, but I can't exactly see myself going off to work for some bank or management consultancy either.
The compensation is, I suppose, that I get to choose my own travel.
#80
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 2,092
I'm a scientist, working in academia. Furthermore I'm in Australia, so fifteen hours of flying to get somewhere is considered "not that far".
I've resigned myself to the fact that even freaking Nobel Laureates (of which i am not one) have to fly economy. I'm not happy with it, but I can't exactly see myself going off to work for some bank or management consultancy either.
The compensation is, I suppose, that I get to choose my own travel.
I've resigned myself to the fact that even freaking Nobel Laureates (of which i am not one) have to fly economy. I'm not happy with it, but I can't exactly see myself going off to work for some bank or management consultancy either.
The compensation is, I suppose, that I get to choose my own travel.
#81
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,602
10 hours Y is barely OK, but 15 hours is definitely cruel! For business, I would reconsider the purpose of such a trip. For leasure, there are even more crazy things people do (for example MR or sleeping outside a new opening store for +15 hours to get a 100$ discount...
#83
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South Yorkshire, UK
Programs: A3*G, LH FTL, VS Red, Avis Preferred, Hertz President's Circle, (RIP Diamond Club)
Posts: 2,364
Agreed. You need to get invited rather than just going somewhere. Before I left academia I got asked to give a talk at a medium sized conference. I wasn't too fussed about going so I asked for a J ticket in India. To my surprise they agreed with no fuss.
#84
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Programs: Emirates Silver, BA, Flying Blue, Virgin, IHG
Posts: 950
Cruel is when a director turns up after a 28 hr journey and boasted how his J was upgraded to F and he showered onboard when his staff had all flown C on a crappy airline which didn't even have IFE. And everyone was so shocked they said nothing.
#85
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: #1 LGA, #2 JFK, #Never EWR
Programs: Riteaid wellness+ Gold, PlanetFitness Preferred Black, Hyatt Cubic Zirconia, Hallmark Crown Platinum
Posts: 203
I set the travel policy for my firm - and my rule is simple - as long as you can get it under certain budget, I don't care whether it's Y/J or F.
i.e. You need to fly to JFK to SYD and want to fly J and it costs $10k? How cute I will give you a budget of $4k - you can do whatever you want. => most go with either PE on Qantas/ Virgin Australia or J on Fiji or China Southern
i.e. 2 You need to fly to JFK to London. I will give you $3k budget to play with. => most go with Air Europa J at around 2.3k
You can get your miles on whatever airline you want and whichever schedule you want. Just keep it under budget.
i.e. You need to fly to JFK to SYD and want to fly J and it costs $10k? How cute I will give you a budget of $4k - you can do whatever you want. => most go with either PE on Qantas/ Virgin Australia or J on Fiji or China Southern
i.e. 2 You need to fly to JFK to London. I will give you $3k budget to play with. => most go with Air Europa J at around 2.3k
You can get your miles on whatever airline you want and whichever schedule you want. Just keep it under budget.
#86
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: WAS
Posts: 3,012
I set the travel policy for my firm - and my rule is simple - as long as you can get it under certain budget, I don't care whether it's Y/J or F.
i.e. You need to fly to JFK to SYD and want to fly J and it costs $10k? How cute I will give you a budget of $4k - you can do whatever you want. => most go with either PE on Qantas/ Virgin Australia or J on Fiji or China Southern
i.e. 2 You need to fly to JFK to London. I will give you $3k budget to play with. => most go with Air Europa J at around 2.3k
You can get your miles on whatever airline you want and whichever schedule you want. Just keep it under budget.
i.e. You need to fly to JFK to SYD and want to fly J and it costs $10k? How cute I will give you a budget of $4k - you can do whatever you want. => most go with either PE on Qantas/ Virgin Australia or J on Fiji or China Southern
i.e. 2 You need to fly to JFK to London. I will give you $3k budget to play with. => most go with Air Europa J at around 2.3k
You can get your miles on whatever airline you want and whichever schedule you want. Just keep it under budget.
#87
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brunei
Programs: Enrich Sapphire. Kris Flyer Silver.Le Club Accorhotels,Starwood.
Posts: 2,201
I tend to agree. It is a long haul and if the company does not value it's staff enough to send on a 15 hour journey for important work or meetings, then you could:
a) make a suggestion to the CEO politely and ask for him/her to consider your suggestion
b) just suck it up and live with it but rack up the miles and points baby! And then upgrade yourself with the points/miles you rack up?
#88
Used to be 'Travelergcp'
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New Orleans
Programs: AA Plat, Marriott Gold, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,826
All of these cases can probably be easily explained by the differences between high and low margin businesses. Or between front or back office roles in which the employee's worth to the company is easy or hard to measure.
With the occasional outlier of the CEO having a frugal mentality despite being in a lucrative business. Or government/non-profits where the perception of luxury is unacceptable.
With the occasional outlier of the CEO having a frugal mentality despite being in a lucrative business. Or government/non-profits where the perception of luxury is unacceptable.
#89
Join Date: Aug 2013
Programs: Platinum, HH Diamond
Posts: 335
I wonder how often the person in charge of travel actually looks at a map or time zones.
We recently had a US associate fly from the Midwest to Denver to LA to Sydney. All in Y.
My response when I saw the flights, ... Denver? Hello, its January - they get snow, flight delays and maybe his luggage will arrive.
And yep, delay in Denver so an overnight there then missed connection in LA so an overnight there and original project start in of Monday was pushed back to Thursday so we had a team of US & UK & AUST staff having to change their plans/extend their stay for the delay.
Im guessing the person who booked the connections, thought they were saving the company money but I knew it was going to go balls up and it did.
This is why I request permission to book my own travel arrangements. I usually achieve it to max my comfort and not spend any more of the company money.
We recently had a US associate fly from the Midwest to Denver to LA to Sydney. All in Y.
My response when I saw the flights, ... Denver? Hello, its January - they get snow, flight delays and maybe his luggage will arrive.
And yep, delay in Denver so an overnight there then missed connection in LA so an overnight there and original project start in of Monday was pushed back to Thursday so we had a team of US & UK & AUST staff having to change their plans/extend their stay for the delay.
Im guessing the person who booked the connections, thought they were saving the company money but I knew it was going to go balls up and it did.
This is why I request permission to book my own travel arrangements. I usually achieve it to max my comfort and not spend any more of the company money.
#90
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Orleans (MSY)
Programs: AA EXP, IHG PLT, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Amtrak, WN
Posts: 2,617
The word "cruel" sure does get thrown around a lot like it's meaningless, doesn't it. I just can't seriously even entertain the idea of some person being "forced" to fly Y as cruel.
However, I will admit it is uncomfortable and not as enjoyable as J or F!
A cramped Y seat usually isn't the best thing for productivity, and I typically won't bother pecking away at my keyboard if I'm jammed into a Y seat for a 15-hour flight (I'll take advantage of the free beer, enjoy the IFE, and pass out). Nor is it the best for getting rest, especially on those TATL flights where arriving well-rested makes a huge difference.
Survived many long int'l flights in Y, no problem. So have many others. But I would pick a company with better travel policies if I were offered a position from two similar companies. Travel policies matter, especially to those who spend a great deal of time in the air and in hotels.
However, I will admit it is uncomfortable and not as enjoyable as J or F!
A cramped Y seat usually isn't the best thing for productivity, and I typically won't bother pecking away at my keyboard if I'm jammed into a Y seat for a 15-hour flight (I'll take advantage of the free beer, enjoy the IFE, and pass out). Nor is it the best for getting rest, especially on those TATL flights where arriving well-rested makes a huge difference.
Survived many long int'l flights in Y, no problem. So have many others. But I would pick a company with better travel policies if I were offered a position from two similar companies. Travel policies matter, especially to those who spend a great deal of time in the air and in hotels.