gobluetwo

I've traveled both J and Y overseas for work and guess what? I made it without any physical torture and somehow even managed to be productive in all instances.

Cruel and unusual punishment? Hardly cruel or unusual, when the vast majority of seats that are filled on long haul flights are in coach.

Rebelyell

I talked to a friend who said his son was given the option of whether to fly J or Y on his regular trips to Asia. If he chose the latter he would receive a coach seat with a guaranteed empty seat next to him plus $1,500.

The blocked seat was described as some type of "program" his company had with an airline, where they paid extra, but not double.

florin

Well put. It's a business transaction: you do this work and are compensated with that. If you're not happy, go elsewhere. Putting up with Y is not that bad, IMO. I've done my share of TATL trips in Y. My employer is also a "all Y all the time" company and overall I'm happy.

As roberino pointed out, it's also a matter of how often you travel. There is a huge difference between twice a year and twice a month.

I feel that travel for work is not a bonus; it's a drawback. I like to travel. I used to love to travel and did travel a lot in my hay day, but my priorities have since changed. If my employer made me travel a lot more, and I'd be away from my family, missing on various events, etc then that should be compensated somehow. That compensation can come in various forms (be it cash, travel in J, whatever), but without any kind of compensation I simply would not travel.

pinniped

That would be a no-brainer if it worked as designed, but I would always be wondering until the last minute if that seat would really stay empty. This arrangement does not appear to be common, at least not on the U.S. or European major carriers I've flown most often, as I almost never see an empty seat anywhere in any cabin.

I haven't even *heard* of this kind of arrangement before... I remember the old days of courtesy blocks for elites, but there was much more excess capacity in those days, so your random Tuesday night flight might actually have a few empties on it.

angatol

.....

lighthand

I guess it all depends on breaks after arrival, type of work required, time of flight, etc.

If you are expected to head right into a critical million dollar meeting, then I would think the cost of J class ticket is irrelevant considering the potential loss due to poor negotiations resulting from Jet-lag/lack of sleep.

Rebelyell

I think it is quite possible that the guy only flies with a group of people. This would make blocking the extra seat easier, if only by buying and paying for the extra seat with the benefit split between two fliers. And even if the cost isn't split between two fliers, it's still cheaper to buy two coach seats and give someone $1,500 than it is to buy a J seat.

I think all of the airlines have a policy of allowing the purchase of an extra seat, and it is my understanding that they honor this, even on full flights.

pinniped

But would you really try to cut your arrival to that kind of meeting so close anyway?

For TATL/TPAC, I'd fly at least 1 day early simply to minimize irrops risk. When I had clients in Europe we'd always schedule the most important meetings midweek in part because of this. (We had several people traveling from different countries.)

darthbimmer

Not a fair comparison. You can play a round of golf while tired with little downside. If you play poorly, you've still had the opportunity to play at a renowned course. Usually there isn't anything more than your own satisfaction riding on your performance. In a business engagement, performing poorly in front of the customer reflects poorly on you and your company and could cost you future deals. Half-sleepwalking through a negotiation could cost your company significant money.

pinniped

And you probably shouldn't go straight from the airport to that kind of meeting regardless of what cabin you fly. Plan to get there a day early, maybe two if it's Asia.

darthbimmer

Ditto. I've traveled extensively for small companies with policies that everyone, up to the CEO, flies in coach. I used miles and upgrade certs to upgrade to biz class about half the time when flying overseas. Obviously it would have been more enjoyable to ride in paid biz class all the time, but it's not a make-or-break issue. As a frequent traveler, I found nickel-and-dime nonsense and lack of control over schedule to be bigger issues. Thankfully I had none of the former and was able to negotiate a bit on the latter.

Paul56

Not a problem for me as long as the company does not expect me
to be immediately productive when I step off the plane.

I would be headed to the hotel for some sleep and recovery time
after a long trip in coach.

ft101

unless . . . . .

your arrival to service some equipment that costs several tens of thousands (£, $ etc) an hour to run is delayed by 6 to 8 hours because you need a nap.

You can't go a day early as you departed 5 minutes after you heard about the breakdown.

You can't suck it up as you'd be a danger to yourself and others working while tired.

Using your figure, cost of J flight = $5,000

However, value of J flight . . . . priceless (well almost!)

Maybe not relevant in your industry, but very relevant in a lot.

mike_la_jolla

Lurker and visiting from the Luxury Forum. I'm the CEO and I set the travel policy. I fly 'Y' and expect everyone else to do so when on the company dime. It is simply not worth the cost to upgrade to business class unless done with points. That being said, I do allow 5* hotels at the destinations. And I allow adding a day before and after to recover.

'Cruel and unusual punishment'? No. Not close. Kudos to the guy for living his own policy. OK to begin the flame war ...

PS -- Last trip was 'Y': SAN->SIN->BLR->BKK->SAN. ... That hurt a little ... Still blowing snot over the keyboard ...

mike_la_jolla

Actually the latest studies have shown that you shouldn't be driving, let alone negotiating, after a long international flight, Y or not. I can find the study if anybody cares ...