jrl767

that almost sounds like a political entanglement, which makes me think that Seat 2A was in the right geographic vicinity ... how about Iran Air

Seat 2A

You know, this is going to sound crazy but when you say the airline in question was "required" to use 707s, the first one that came to mind was BOAC/British Airways where I recall you mentioning that the government had some history of "requiring" it to purchase certain aircraft - though I believe these were generally British built aircraft as opposed to American built examples.

When you then mention performance in the same context, the beautiful VC10 comes to mind with its big wings, excessive drag and thirsty Conways.

So - let's go with BOAC, which also had a charter arm - British Airtours. I have a few Charles Skilton postcards of their 707s, all of them the older -436 models.

jlemon

How about Queensland and Northern Territory Aerial Services?

WHBM

And there we have it. Yes, BOAC had taken delivery of half a dozen 747s by Spring 1971, when they got their only two 707-336Bs G-AXXY and -XZ. These were hurriedly ordered for a new route, from London Heathrow through Moscow to Tokyo that had been finally agreed, and were bought as the -B series 707 had, I understand, the same MTOW, but was without the additional weight of the cargo door or the reinforced floor of the -C series, and the weight gained could be taken in fuel. They were rather up against it on the westbound Tokyo to Moscow leg against headwinds, and in particular felt they had no good alternate should Moscow Sheremetyevo be closed for any reason, and they were only offered Domodedovo, other side of the same city with the same weather, if SVO was closed. They always took fuel for Helsinki, for which they were required to route overhead Moscow rather than any direct track, and actually preferred to keep going for Copenhagen if they could, all of these leading to difficulties as the replacement BOAC crew would be in Moscow, and rather than get a relief 707 crew out it was quicker to put the passengers on BEA or the local carrier onward to London. There were various attempts, on the occasions that a diversion was required, to make it to Heathrow nonstop, nobody ever managed it but one crew did get as far as Amsterdam while staying within fuel reserve regulations. The first few months of the route had been done with -C aircraft BOAC already had, but without taking any freight, and thus notably unprofitably.

The requirement to use a 707 was just one of the aspects of the negotiations with the Soviet Union over the route. There were six frequencies per week agreed, but divided two to BOAC, two to Japan Air Lines (who used good long range DC8-62s), and two to Aeroflot, which were scheduled as through flights with a single number from London to Tokyo. They used Ilyushin 62s. Now the IL-62 doesn't even have the range of the 707, but they were fine with the Moscow alternate, and could go anywhere else in the Soviet Union if required, including refuelling short, which was absolutely prohibited to BOAC/JAL. The 747 was about to come into service on Europe to Japan via Anchorage flights, a considerable dogleg compared to via Moscow, but the agreement required each carrier to provide the same number of seats. This all lasted well into the 1980s, one of BA's last narrowbody long haul routes.

If you want to read what it was like starting this route up, there's no better place than here

http://betteronacamel.com/Russia-USS...ess-1969-1972-

I'm sorry if all the other stories in the sidebar to this page distract you for hours ! There are some fascinating old stories in there by those who were there at the time.

Just in passing, Airtours was wholly a BEA operation, it was named BEA Airtours when the two carriers were separate, and after the 1974 merger when it became British Airtours it still ran mostly in Europe, and the few long-haul 707 flights they did were with these crews, and notably looked down their noses at by the "Long Haul Division" BA crews, which until well into the 1990s were really BOAC with a new name. BOAC used to have its own charter company called "BOAC Limited" who did charters (not many) to Toronto, Singapore etc with spare all-economy 707s from the main fleet.

Seat 2A

Thank you, WHBM, for the superb detail to your response as well as the clarification or rather correction on the British Airtours operation. I was easily fooled by the BA livery on the aircraft postcards that I have.

Betteronacamel.com looks like an entertaining site to check out on a rainy day - or even a sunny one. I'll look forward to that.

MADPhil

Fascinating indeed, I wish I had been in a position to fly more at the time. The scary thing is that I was already at University when this ancient history was being lived. Some of the stories certainly put the current crop of complaints in perspective.

jlemon

And I've added a few hints here and there to these yet to be answered quiz items.....

jlemon

ANSWERED

jlemon

And this one remains unanswered as well......

Finally a sunny morning here following three days of rain for a total of 5.45 inches in the old rain gauge.

jrl767

19 - Delta's "branding" for FC in the 60s was "Golden Crown Service" ... even though the 880 was an all-FC configuration, I can't associate a name with their #1 jet

the original seating layout didn't last long; I flew on N8801E in coach in Mar 1973, BOS-BWI (actually, I think the airport code was still BAL)

jrl767

to the best of my recollection, the only carriers serving both MIA and YUL were Eastern and Northeast ... I think the more likely answer is NE, operating via Philadelphia and Boston

and with that in mind, I'm extremely surprised that our esteemed associate Quizmeister didn't ask for the aircraft type ... by 1961, NE would have probably replaced a DC-6B on this long route with a Convair 880

jlemon

3. Northeast is correct! And, yep, I forgot to ask what aircraft type was operated on this service. Here's the sched....

NE 40: Miami (MIA) 1:00p - 4:15p Philadelphia (PHL) 4:45p - 5:40p Boston (BOS) 6:15p - 7:10p Montreal (YUL)
Op: Daily
Equip: "880 JET"
Classes of service: First & Day Coach
Meal service: Lunch MIA-PHL

Seat 2A

12. Fill in the blanks concerning this 1968 airline ad: "Our 8:25pm ________ Flight to New York is full of pretzels, bustles & beer. __________: The Airline Where New Things Are Happening!"

Also identify the aircraft type this flight was operated with. Hint: equipment was a twin engine aircraft.

I've been pretty sure this was Mohawk since the question was first posed. However, I'm not so sure about the branding. "Gaslight Service" is the only thing that comes to mind and yet I associate that with the airline's DC-3s. Still, that's all I have to go with. The flight would likely have been coming from Upstate New York, perhaps Buffalo or Syracuse. As for the aircraft, I'm thinking that in 1968 it was a BAC-111.

jlemon

12. Correct! The Mohawk print ad stated:

"Mohawk's famous Gaslight Flights are back! Jet into the Gay 90's on a flight filled with cigars, pretzels and 10 cent beers! And it's all served up with a dash of nostalgia. Gaslight Flights to Kennedy Airport depart Syracuse every evening Monday thru Friday. Or you can choose from two Utica Club Flights (an experience in subdued psychedelia). Early risers can step aboard the Pajama Jet at 7:45 AM - a great way to wake up! Ask Mohawk or your travel agent about VARIETY FLIGHTS."

Indelaware

I believe that it was SYR-JFK if that helps.