Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.
#4816
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Let's return to The Quiz and......The 1960's.......
As usual, please limit your answers to two or three quiz items at a time so all may participate and also please try to answer as completely as you can.
This quiz item has a time line of the year 1962:
10. United was also operating several "Men Only" flights at this time. Two of these flights departed Chicago at 5:00pm local each weekday to different destinations. Name both destinations and the equipment used on each flight. In addition, UA had very specific and different descriptive names to identify each of these flights. What were the names used to describe these flights? Partially answered...ORD-EWR correctly identified....still looking for the other route from ORD
The above quiz item remains unanswered......
As usual, please limit your answers to two or three quiz items at a time so all may participate and also please try to answer as completely as you can.
This quiz item has a time line of the year 1962:
10. United was also operating several "Men Only" flights at this time. Two of these flights departed Chicago at 5:00pm local each weekday to different destinations. Name both destinations and the equipment used on each flight. In addition, UA had very specific and different descriptive names to identify each of these flights. What were the names used to describe these flights? Partially answered...ORD-EWR correctly identified....still looking for the other route from ORD
The above quiz item remains unanswered......
Last edited by jlemon; May 23, 2014 at 12:41 pm Reason: revision of list of remaining quiz items
#4817
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Both of the following quiz items have a time line of various months during the year 1962......
33. What was the name for National's first class service on board the DC-8 in 1962?
34. You are in Jacksonville, Florida and wish to travel to Atlanta. You discover that Southern Airways operates a "milk run" flight with four intermediate stops being made en route between JAX and ATL. Identify all four stops as well as the aircraft type you'll be flying on.
The next two quiz items have a time line of various months during the year 1967.....
40. This airline was operating daily nonstop jet service from Greater Southwest Airport (GSW) which served Fort Worth to Tulsa. Identify the air carrier and the equipment flown on the route.
41. This air carrier was flying daily nonstop jet service from Greater Southwest Airport (GSW) on the short hop to Dallas Love Field. However, the return service from DAL to GSW was operated with non jet equipment. Name the airline and the respective aircraft types it flew in each direction.
And the above quiz items are still looking for answers as well.....
33. What was the name for National's first class service on board the DC-8 in 1962?
34. You are in Jacksonville, Florida and wish to travel to Atlanta. You discover that Southern Airways operates a "milk run" flight with four intermediate stops being made en route between JAX and ATL. Identify all four stops as well as the aircraft type you'll be flying on.
The next two quiz items have a time line of various months during the year 1967.....
40. This airline was operating daily nonstop jet service from Greater Southwest Airport (GSW) which served Fort Worth to Tulsa. Identify the air carrier and the equipment flown on the route.
41. This air carrier was flying daily nonstop jet service from Greater Southwest Airport (GSW) on the short hop to Dallas Love Field. However, the return service from DAL to GSW was operated with non jet equipment. Name the airline and the respective aircraft types it flew in each direction.
And the above quiz items are still looking for answers as well.....
Last edited by jlemon; May 24, 2014 at 9:35 am Reason: revision of list of remaining quiz items.....
#4818
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48. It's 1963 and you wish to fly from Anchorage to Red Devil, Alaska. You discover there is one direct flight a week operated with a turboprop. Identify the airline and the equipment you'll be flying on. ANSWERED
Last edited by jlemon; May 23, 2014 at 12:42 pm Reason: answer update
#4819
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Spot on, jl. There weren't many operators of the big Boeing Strat, but Ghana Airways was one of them - albeit run for them by BOAC.
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...tart=0&ndsp=15
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...tart=0&ndsp=15
#4820
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Spot on, jl. There weren't many operators of the big Boeing Strat, but Ghana Airways was one of them - albeit run for them by BOAC.
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...tart=0&ndsp=15
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...tart=0&ndsp=15
The location was Anchorage International (ANC) back around 1990. A huge cloud of smoke could be seen as the engines were started. This particular aircraft was reportedly being used to fly freshly caught fish into ANC from other locations in Alaska.
I'm inclined to believe that what I actually saw was a former U.S. Air Force Stratofreighter being operated by a commercial air freight outfit as there are a couple of photos on airliners.net taken at ANC of C-97/KC-97 aircraft (N39178 and N972HP) from that time......
#4822
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Convair 880: LAX-ACF-MSY
Convair 880: MSY-ACF-SAN-LAX
Douglas DC-6: ACF-DAL-SHV-JAN-BHM-ATL
Douglas DC-6: ATL-BHM-SHV-ACF
So in the late winter of 1962, Delta was operating three flights a day from the airport.....
#4823
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The last commercial Strat operation was in the late 1960s by a Venezuelan residual operator, although like many in the area they were probably based at Miami. It will have been a C-97, which was somewhat similar, 20 years later at ANC. There was also an operator out of Miami of these, registered in the Dominican Republic, up to the late 1990s, I never saw them flying but saw all three of them together on the ground on the north side of MIA towards the end of their time.
Huge smoke clouds at start up are a standard feature of radial engines, not necessarily old and un-maintained ones. Compared to a car engine with the lubricating oil sump at the bottom, in a radial the crankshaft is in the middle. When stopped lube seeps down past the piston rings into the lower cylinders, which is what burns off on startup and causes the grey smoke. There is actually a mechanical condition called "hydraulic lock" which can arise if too much lube seeps down and jams the valves, which is why piston radials always do a couple of turns very slow when starting to detect if it has happened, as otherwise you can burst a cylinder.
Real classic for smoke on startup was the old Airspeed Ambassador, whose Bristol Centaurus radials had sleeve valves rather than conventional valves, supposedly an improvement but the oil seeped everywhere. There was a Dan-Air one used to overnight at Liverpool for the Amsterdam service when I was a kid, saw it fire up a couple of times - smoke everywhere. Old tower hands have joked they used to put the airfield onto Low Visibility Procedures for 5 minutes after an Ambassador started up !
Huge smoke clouds at start up are a standard feature of radial engines, not necessarily old and un-maintained ones. Compared to a car engine with the lubricating oil sump at the bottom, in a radial the crankshaft is in the middle. When stopped lube seeps down past the piston rings into the lower cylinders, which is what burns off on startup and causes the grey smoke. There is actually a mechanical condition called "hydraulic lock" which can arise if too much lube seeps down and jams the valves, which is why piston radials always do a couple of turns very slow when starting to detect if it has happened, as otherwise you can burst a cylinder.
Real classic for smoke on startup was the old Airspeed Ambassador, whose Bristol Centaurus radials had sleeve valves rather than conventional valves, supposedly an improvement but the oil seeped everywhere. There was a Dan-Air one used to overnight at Liverpool for the Amsterdam service when I was a kid, saw it fire up a couple of times - smoke everywhere. Old tower hands have joked they used to put the airfield onto Low Visibility Procedures for 5 minutes after an Ambassador started up !
#4824
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Real classic for smoke on startup was the old Airspeed Ambassador, whose Bristol Centaurus radials had sleeve valves rather than conventional valves, supposedly an improvement but the oil seeped everywhere. There was a Dan-Air one used to overnight at Liverpool for the Amsterdam service when I was a kid, saw it fire up a couple of times - smoke everywhere. Old tower hands have joked they used to put the airfield onto Low Visibility Procedures for 5 minutes after an Ambassador started up !
The 880 sat at the west end of the 6,052 foot primary runway and revved up the engines. The result was a huge cloud of smoke followed a minute or two later by brake release and then the old Convair jetliner roared down the runway, apparently for all she was worth. I think this was back in the early 1980's.......and I never saw that old CV-880 back at SBA again.
Last edited by jlemon; May 8, 2014 at 6:11 pm
#4825
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17. Every Monday at this time, BOAC operated a westbound around the world flight that originated and terminated in London, of course. This service was described as operating via "The Orient" and thus did not stop in Australia. Eleven intermediate stops were made en route on this around the world flight. Name all of them and also identify the equipment flown by BOAC on the service.
18. BOAC was also operating a westbound around the world flight from London which departed every Friday at this time. This flight was also operated via "The Orient" and made eleven intermediate stops en route. However, two of the stops were different from the routing of the flight described in item 17. Identify these two different stops.
18. BOAC was also operating a westbound around the world flight from London which departed every Friday at this time. This flight was also operated via "The Orient" and made eleven intermediate stops en route. However, two of the stops were different from the routing of the flight described in item 17. Identify these two different stops.
By 1962 the Bristol Britannia that used to do this marathon had been replaced by Conway-powered 707s. The first bit of the trip was always straightforward. LHR-New York (still IDL, not JFK yet)-SFO-HNL-TYO-HKG. The Britannia hadn't manage the second Pacific sector nonstop, and refuelled at Wake Island along the way, while the 707 was more capable. The route was primarily operated for Hong Kong passengers, where in those days BOAC was the long-haul operator, to the USA and Australia as well as the UK, and Cathay Pacific was just a regional small-scale operation.
Beyond Hong Kong the routing varied between just about every flight of the week, and also from timetable to timetable, with maybe half a dozen stops along the way. Bombay or Delhi in India, somewhere in the Gulf, Beirut, and Rome or Frankfurt across Europe. Other stops could be any sort along the way.
A contact over here used to work all this out as a junior ops officer at BOAC. All those stops along the Asian routes were scheduled maybe 3 or 5 times a week, or whatever, typical loads from each estimated, included a significant number making just intermediate trips. There were no MEA or Thai long haul flights then, so if you wanted to do Bangkok to Beirut this is how you did it. Additional flights cut in at places along the way as required. Scheduling crews who changed several times along such strung-out routes had to be accounted for, and if the presence of both the 707 and the VC10 (which had separate crews) was a further dimension in later years, well in 1962 it was both 707 and Comet, and back in the 1950s it had likewise been a mix of Canadair Argonauts and Lockheed Constellations, so BOAC were used to such complexities. Like a sort of college exam question, said contact had to present a proposal to senior staff, with justifications for changes from the status quo. A real "best uniform" morning's presentation.
What fun !
#4826
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Let's pick these off.
By 1962 the Bristol Britannia that used to do this marathon had been replaced by Conway-powered 707s. The first bit of the trip was always straightforward. LHR-New York (still IDL, not JFK yet)-SFO-HNL-TYO-HKG. The Britannia hadn't manage the second Pacific sector nonstop, and refuelled at Wake Island along the way, while the 707 was more capable. The route was primarily operated for Hong Kong passengers, where in those days BOAC was the long-haul operator, to the USA and Australia as well as the UK, and Cathay Pacific was just a regional small-scale operation.
Beyond Hong Kong the routing varied between just about every flight of the week, and also from timetable to timetable, with maybe half a dozen stops along the way. Bombay or Delhi in India, somewhere in the Gulf, Beirut, and Rome or Frankfurt across Europe. Other stops could be any sort along the way.
A contact over here used to work all this out as a junior ops officer at BOAC. All those stops along the Asian routes were scheduled maybe 3 or 5 times a week, or whatever, typical loads from each estimated, included a significant number making just intermediate trips. There were no MEA or Thai long haul flights then, so if you wanted to do Bangkok to Beirut this is how you did it. Additional flights cut in at places along the way as required. Scheduling crews who changed several times along such strung-out routes had to be accounted for, and if the presence of both the 707 and the VC10 (which had separate crews) was a further dimension in later years, well in 1962 it was both 707 and Comet, and back in the 1950s it had likewise been a mix of Canadair Argonauts and Lockheed Constellations, so BOAC were used to such complexities. Like a sort of college exam question, said contact had to present a proposal to senior staff, with justifications for changes from the status quo. A real "best uniform" morning's presentation.
What fun !
By 1962 the Bristol Britannia that used to do this marathon had been replaced by Conway-powered 707s. The first bit of the trip was always straightforward. LHR-New York (still IDL, not JFK yet)-SFO-HNL-TYO-HKG. The Britannia hadn't manage the second Pacific sector nonstop, and refuelled at Wake Island along the way, while the 707 was more capable. The route was primarily operated for Hong Kong passengers, where in those days BOAC was the long-haul operator, to the USA and Australia as well as the UK, and Cathay Pacific was just a regional small-scale operation.
Beyond Hong Kong the routing varied between just about every flight of the week, and also from timetable to timetable, with maybe half a dozen stops along the way. Bombay or Delhi in India, somewhere in the Gulf, Beirut, and Rome or Frankfurt across Europe. Other stops could be any sort along the way.
A contact over here used to work all this out as a junior ops officer at BOAC. All those stops along the Asian routes were scheduled maybe 3 or 5 times a week, or whatever, typical loads from each estimated, included a significant number making just intermediate trips. There were no MEA or Thai long haul flights then, so if you wanted to do Bangkok to Beirut this is how you did it. Additional flights cut in at places along the way as required. Scheduling crews who changed several times along such strung-out routes had to be accounted for, and if the presence of both the 707 and the VC10 (which had separate crews) was a further dimension in later years, well in 1962 it was both 707 and Comet, and back in the 1950s it had likewise been a mix of Canadair Argonauts and Lockheed Constellations, so BOAC were used to such complexities. Like a sort of college exam question, said contact had to present a proposal to senior staff, with justifications for changes from the status quo. A real "best uniform" morning's presentation.
What fun !
In the fall of 1962 BOAC was actually operating three westbound departures every week from London on their around the world services (via "The Orient" as described in their system timetable). All three flights were operated with R&R powered Boeing 707 aircraft as WHBM states above.
Here are the schedules.....
Departing every Monday - BA 911 / BA 901: London-New York-San Francisco-Honolulu-Tokyo-Hong Kong-Rangoon-Delhi-Bahrain-Beirut-Rome-Frankfurt-London
Departing every Wednesday - BA 911 / BA 901: London-New York-San Francisco-Honolulu-Tokyo-Hong Kong-Calcutta-Karachi-Beirut-Rome-London
Departing every Friday - BA 911 / BA 901: London-New York-San Francisco-Honolulu-Tokyo-Hong Kong-Bangkok-Delhi-Teheran-Beirut-Rome-Frankfurt-London
Note there was a flight number change from BA 911 to BA 901 en route. Now the timetable apparently does not specify where this flight number change took place but I'll guess it occurred at either Tokyo or Hong Kong.
Depending on the day of the week, different stops were made at different destinations as WHBM mentions. I've underlined those above. Also note that both the Monday and Friday flights made eleven stops en route while the Wednesday flight made nine.
At this very same time BOAC was also operating several other interesting flights between London and Asia as referenced above by WHBM. Here are the westbound examples......
Departing every Sunday - BA 939: Tokyo-Hong Kong-Rangoon-Calcutta-Karachi-Abadan-Cairo-Dusseldorf-London
Equip: Comet
Departing every Tuesday - BA 935: Tokyo-Hong Kong-Bangkok-Delhi-Kuwait-Beirut-Zurich-London
Equip: Comet
Departing every Wednesday - BA 937: Tokyo-Hong Kong-Calcutta-Karachi-Abadan-Beirut-Dusseldorf-London
Equip: Comet
Departing every Friday - BA 933: Tokyo-Hong Kong-Bangkok-Delhi-Kuwait-Beirut-Zurich-London
Equip: Comet
So at this time BOAC was operating seven flights a week with either 707 or Comet equipment from Tokyo and Hong Kong westbound to London.....and it's also interesting to note that Abadan, Iran had two direct flights a week to London as well as to Dusseldorf with the Comet in addition to inbound service twice a week from Hong Kong and Tokyo.
Last edited by jlemon; May 12, 2014 at 9:52 am Reason: additional info....
#4827
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Good morning from The Last Frontier. I've made a quick supply run back up to Fairbanks which has allowed me a bit of quality internet access here at Gulliver's Books. Alas, for the next month at least, my participation at FT and in particular the OTAAQ will be extremely limited due to a dearth of quality internet access at my early season location in the park. That said, I've enjoyed all of the repartee and information exchanged in the above posts. Thanks to everyone for their participation and special thanks to jlemon for his considerable investment of time and effort in putting this excellent collection of questions together.
Once again, I'd like to encourage any and all of you to consider submitting a few questions of your own. WHBM has provided some great questions and I've no doubt that the rest of you, with your collective knowledge and backgrounds, could provide some challenging head scratchers for your fellow enthusiasts. Please give this some real consideration as we'd most certainly welcome your input.
29. What type of equipment was Western Air Lines operating into Palm Springs in 1962? Also identify the three nonstop routes WA was flying from PSP at this time with this aircraft type.
Western was operating DC-6s, Constellations and Electras in 1962. Actually, I take that back on the Connies as I believe they came to Western in the PNA takeover. Routes into Palm Springs were from Las Vegas and Los Angeles for sure and I think San Diego as well. As to aircraft, I'll go with the DC-6.
32. National Airlines was flying the Douglas DC-8 into seven U.S. cities. Name all seven destinations served by NA with the DC-8 at this time.
National got access to the west coast in 1961, so I'm going to go with Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Houston, Miami, New Orleans and New York. I believe Las Vegas was also part of this route award, but I seem to recall seeing Electras routed through there...
38. In 1965, Braniff International was operating jet service into three destinations in Iowa. The same aircraft type was flown into all three airports. Name all three cities as well as the equipment used on the service.
How many jet capable airports were there in Iowa in 1962? Or perhaps I should ask how many communities were there deemed worthy of jet service? Perhaps only three? If I had to guess (and I do), I'm going to go with the three biggest cities I can think of: Des Moines, Cedar Rapids and Sioux City. The aircraft would have been the BAC-111.
Once again, I'd like to encourage any and all of you to consider submitting a few questions of your own. WHBM has provided some great questions and I've no doubt that the rest of you, with your collective knowledge and backgrounds, could provide some challenging head scratchers for your fellow enthusiasts. Please give this some real consideration as we'd most certainly welcome your input.
29. What type of equipment was Western Air Lines operating into Palm Springs in 1962? Also identify the three nonstop routes WA was flying from PSP at this time with this aircraft type.
Western was operating DC-6s, Constellations and Electras in 1962. Actually, I take that back on the Connies as I believe they came to Western in the PNA takeover. Routes into Palm Springs were from Las Vegas and Los Angeles for sure and I think San Diego as well. As to aircraft, I'll go with the DC-6.
32. National Airlines was flying the Douglas DC-8 into seven U.S. cities. Name all seven destinations served by NA with the DC-8 at this time.
National got access to the west coast in 1961, so I'm going to go with Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Houston, Miami, New Orleans and New York. I believe Las Vegas was also part of this route award, but I seem to recall seeing Electras routed through there...
38. In 1965, Braniff International was operating jet service into three destinations in Iowa. The same aircraft type was flown into all three airports. Name all three cities as well as the equipment used on the service.
How many jet capable airports were there in Iowa in 1962? Or perhaps I should ask how many communities were there deemed worthy of jet service? Perhaps only three? If I had to guess (and I do), I'm going to go with the three biggest cities I can think of: Des Moines, Cedar Rapids and Sioux City. The aircraft would have been the BAC-111.
Last edited by Seat 2A; May 10, 2014 at 1:53 pm
#4828
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29. Western with Douglas DC-6 service into Palm Springs in 1962 is correct! The WA routes at the time included SAN-PSP-LAS and PSP-ONT-LAX. And by 1963 Western had replaced the DC-6s on these very same routes with the introduction of Lockheed L-188 Electra service.
32. With regard to National's DC-8 service to seven U.S. cities in 1962, you've named them all correctly except for one: San Diego was not served with the DC-8 by NA at this time....but Tampa was.
So here's a follow up question: what type of aircraft was National using to serve San Diego in 1962? ANSWERED
38. The BAC One-Eleven operated by Braniff International into three Iowa cities in 1965 is correct! However, BN was not serving Cedar Rapids at this time....but they were flying into Des Moines, Sioux City and......Waterloo. Braniff was also operating "Convairliners" into all three destinations as well in 1965 and I think these may have been CV-340 aircraft.
32. With regard to National's DC-8 service to seven U.S. cities in 1962, you've named them all correctly except for one: San Diego was not served with the DC-8 by NA at this time....but Tampa was.
So here's a follow up question: what type of aircraft was National using to serve San Diego in 1962? ANSWERED
38. The BAC One-Eleven operated by Braniff International into three Iowa cities in 1965 is correct! However, BN was not serving Cedar Rapids at this time....but they were flying into Des Moines, Sioux City and......Waterloo. Braniff was also operating "Convairliners" into all three destinations as well in 1965 and I think these may have been CV-340 aircraft.
Last edited by jlemon; May 16, 2014 at 4:11 pm Reason: answer update....
#4829
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And here's a follow up quiz item:
At least four U.S. based airlines were interested in possibly operating the BAC One-Eleven. However, none of these air carriers actually took delivery of the type. Name these four air carriers and also explain why several of these airlines ended up not operating the iconic British twin jet.
At least four U.S. based airlines were interested in possibly operating the BAC One-Eleven. However, none of these air carriers actually took delivery of the type. Name these four air carriers and also explain why several of these airlines ended up not operating the iconic British twin jet.
I believe the four U.S. air carriers that exhibited interest in the BAC One-Eleven were Bonanza, Frontier, Ozark and Western. It appears that Western ordered ten BAC One-Eleven twin jets but then cancelled the order. Bonanza apparently ordered three but never took delivery. It has been reported that the Civil Aeronautics Board (CAB) put pressure on Bonanza, Frontier and Ozark as the federal government did not want them to buy the British jet but instead acquire new U.S. made aircraft. Of course, Aloha, American, Braniff International and Mohawk were all successful with regard to their respective attempts to operate new BAC One-Eleven aircraft.....
And speaking of American, it appears that AA has finally retired their last Boeing 767-200 with a final flight apparently taking place this past Wednesday. American was primarily using these aircraft on transcon flights between JFK and LAX/SFO. The 762s have been replaced by AA on these transcons with new Airbus A321 aircraft in three class configuration.
Last edited by jlemon; May 10, 2014 at 4:50 pm Reason: AA 762 update...
#4830
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21. What type of aircraft was Canadian Pacific operating on its direct flights between Vancouver (YVR) and Whitehorse (YXY) at this time?
Britannia Empress operated by a Bristol Britannia 314, with a first class airfare of $75 one-way.
Britannia Empress operated by a Bristol Britannia 314, with a first class airfare of $75 one-way.
Last edited by Icecat; May 10, 2014 at 9:52 pm