Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.
Dec 29, 2013, 4:21 pm
#4006
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And I have the distinct honor on this beautiful Sunday morning here in south Louisiana of noting that I have now made post #4000 to the OTA&AQ!
Meantime, we have established the fact that Eastern operated both the DC-10 and the L-1011 during its existence. So here's a bonus quiz item:
At least five other U.S. based air carriers also flew both the DC-10 and L-1011 in scheduled passenger service although perhaps not at the same time (however, some airlines surely did). In addition, an airline based in the U.K. operated the DC-10 and L-1011 as well. Identify all of these air carriers.
Meantime, we have established the fact that Eastern operated both the DC-10 and the L-1011 during its existence. So here's a bonus quiz item:
At least five other U.S. based air carriers also flew both the DC-10 and L-1011 in scheduled passenger service although perhaps not at the same time (however, some airlines surely did). In addition, an airline based in the U.K. operated the DC-10 and L-1011 as well. Identify all of these air carriers.
UK operator: BA was a huge TriStar operator but I believe they had a handful of D10s as well
Last edited by jrl767; Dec 29, 2013 at 4:28 pm
Dec 29, 2013, 5:50 pm
#4007
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13. This airline had a glass-fibre, Teflon coated shield on the underside of its two 727-100s. What airline was this and why the need for the teflon shield?
Well I think I can recall an article in an old Flight magazine from long ago where there were aircraft shielded from coral dust at semi-sealed runways in the mid-Pacific. Could have been Air Nauru (which in truth was Ansett of Australia behind the scenes technically) or Air Mike (which likewise was Continental holding up the technical aspects).
Given the questioner's locale, I'll go for the Air Mike/Continental. I believe both suspects had a couple of 727-100s.
Winner! Winner! Chicken dinner! You are right on, WHBM. Could this have been the article?
Island Hopping Airline
Incidentally, I believe the gravel-strip kits for northern Canadian/Alaskan operations were shields round the wheels rather than a coating. I think that a coating would be more necessary to guard against corrosion, which is very considerable from coral, rather than impact damage from gravel.
Dec 29, 2013, 6:00 pm
#4008
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At least five other U.S. based air carriers also flew both the DC-10 and L-1011 in scheduled passenger service although perhaps not at the same time (however, some airlines surely did). In addition, an airline based in the U.K. operated the DC-10 and L-1011 as well. Identify all of these air carriers.
US operators of both the big tri-jets: I am highly confident of Delta, Hawaiian, and Pan Am ... I think some of the PA L15s briefly went to United with the Pacific routes, and I seem to recall American Trans Air with a D10 for awhile
UK operator: BA was a huge TriStar operator but I believe they had a handful of D10s as well
I seem to recall a large U.S. airline that purchased another airline's Pacific
division and inherited some Tristars. The name escapes me at present...
Arrgh! It's so close! Uh...
Dec 29, 2013, 6:17 pm
#4009
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on that particular trip I was en route to the Arnold Air Society (Air Force ROTC honor society) national conclave in Salt Lake City ... I had flown space-available from Andrews AFB (near my home in the DC area) to Peterson AFB in Colorado Springs aboard a C-118 (AF version of the Douglas DC-6 ... looooong day, since the flight made a stop at Eglin AFB); gone by bus up to Boulder to visit a high school classmate who was attending the University of Colorado, and still needed to get to SLC ... over 40 years later, I don't recall what my other DEN-SLC choices were, but the opportunity to both fly on a 737 for the first time and to see what the area around GJT looked like from lower altitude made that a pretty simple choice
I am sure that, if I were to look at an Apr 1973 OAG today, I would find another option that would now look a lot better ... perhaps a CV-580 with two or three intermediate stops
Last edited by jrl767; Dec 29, 2013 at 6:24 pm
Dec 29, 2013, 6:20 pm
#4010
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Dec 29, 2013, 7:45 pm
#4011
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Indeed we are! I must've missed that little bit there. Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but I could almost swear that Arrow Air operated an L-1011. I'm pretty sure I have a postcard of it. And I know that Arrow operated DC-10 freighters. If so, we could add them to the list as well.
Finally, we're down to the last question:
17. Seven different airlines operated nonstop 747 flights between the United States and Canada. Three of these airlines offered service on the same route. All other airlines and their routes flown were unique. Identify the airlines and the routes flown. PARTIALLY A N S W E R E D AR & AT on the JFK-YMX route, QF on the YVR-HNL route)
Think west for a couple of them, Midwest for another plus one more on the JFK-YMX route.
If not correctly answered, I'll provide those answers around midday tomorrow. After that, I believe Mr. Lemon will grace us with another batch of his fine questions.
By the way, jlemon and I are certainly willing to submit more questions as time and travels allow but I just want to make sure it's understood that if any one here would like to come up with their own set of questions, by all means please feel free to do so. Just speak up and I expect your questions will likely go straight to the front of the line. ^
Finally, we're down to the last question:
17. Seven different airlines operated nonstop 747 flights between the United States and Canada. Three of these airlines offered service on the same route. All other airlines and their routes flown were unique. Identify the airlines and the routes flown. PARTIALLY A N S W E R E D AR & AT on the JFK-YMX route, QF on the YVR-HNL route)
Think west for a couple of them, Midwest for another plus one more on the JFK-YMX route.
If not correctly answered, I'll provide those answers around midday tomorrow. After that, I believe Mr. Lemon will grace us with another batch of his fine questions.
By the way, jlemon and I are certainly willing to submit more questions as time and travels allow but I just want to make sure it's understood that if any one here would like to come up with their own set of questions, by all means please feel free to do so. Just speak up and I expect your questions will likely go straight to the front of the line. ^
Last edited by Seat 2A; Dec 29, 2013 at 7:56 pm
Dec 29, 2013, 8:45 pm
#4012
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... Finally, we're down to the last question:
17. Seven different airlines operated nonstop 747 flights between the United States and Canada. Three of these airlines offered service on the same route. All other airlines and their routes flown were unique. Identify the airlines and the routes flown. PARTIALLY A N S W E R E D AR & AT on the JFK-YMX route, QF on the YVR-HNL route)
Think west for a couple of them, Midwest for another plus one more on the JFK-YMX route. ...
17. Seven different airlines operated nonstop 747 flights between the United States and Canada. Three of these airlines offered service on the same route. All other airlines and their routes flown were unique. Identify the airlines and the routes flown. PARTIALLY A N S W E R E D AR & AT on the JFK-YMX route, QF on the YVR-HNL route)
Think west for a couple of them, Midwest for another plus one more on the JFK-YMX route. ...
wild guesses:
AC, LAX <-> YYZ
WD, LAS <-> YEG
AZ, JFK <-> YMX
Dec 30, 2013, 12:54 pm
#4013
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17. Seven different airlines operated nonstop 747 flights between the United States and Canada. Three of these airlines offered service on the same route. All other airlines and their routes flown were unique. Identify the airlines and the routes flown.
PARTIALLY A N S W E R E D (AR & AT on the JFK-YMX route, QF on the YVR-HNL route) Think west for a couple of them, Midwest for another plus one more on the JFK-YMX route...
a week or so back I posited UA ORD <-> YYZ (which fits the "Midwest" category), but have not seen any yea or nay as to that guess
I'm sorry about that, J - I must've missed it. But no, it was not United on the ORD-YYZ route.
wild guesses:
AC, LAX <-> YYZ An excellent guess as AC has indeed operated its 747s on this route in the past. Unfortunately, they weren't doing so in December 1988.
WD, LAS <-> YEG Wow! That is wild! Wardair may have operated a charter perhaps but I've never heard of scheduled 747 service on this route and - for the purposes of this question - not in December 1988.
AZ, JFK <-> YMX Alitalia would have been an answer to this question many years earlier but in 1988, they were not.
jrl22, you in particular have given this question one heck of an effort. Many of your answers have been correct - but unfortunately at times other than December 1988. Even so, you still deserve credit for that. However, we still have four more airlines we're looking for on the following routes:
JFK-YMX:
LAX-YVR:
SFO-YVR:
ORD-YMX:
PARTIALLY A N S W E R E D (AR & AT on the JFK-YMX route, QF on the YVR-HNL route) Think west for a couple of them, Midwest for another plus one more on the JFK-YMX route...
a week or so back I posited UA ORD <-> YYZ (which fits the "Midwest" category), but have not seen any yea or nay as to that guess
I'm sorry about that, J - I must've missed it. But no, it was not United on the ORD-YYZ route.
wild guesses:
AC, LAX <-> YYZ An excellent guess as AC has indeed operated its 747s on this route in the past. Unfortunately, they weren't doing so in December 1988.
WD, LAS <-> YEG Wow! That is wild! Wardair may have operated a charter perhaps but I've never heard of scheduled 747 service on this route and - for the purposes of this question - not in December 1988.
AZ, JFK <-> YMX Alitalia would have been an answer to this question many years earlier but in 1988, they were not.
jrl22, you in particular have given this question one heck of an effort. Many of your answers have been correct - but unfortunately at times other than December 1988. Even so, you still deserve credit for that. However, we still have four more airlines we're looking for on the following routes:
JFK-YMX:
LAX-YVR:
SFO-YVR:
ORD-YMX:
Dec 30, 2013, 2:44 pm
#4014
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US operators of both the big tri-jets: I am highly confident of Delta, Hawaiian, and Pan Am ... I think some of the PA L15s briefly went to United with the Pacific routes, and I seem to recall American Trans Air with a D10 for awhile
UK operator: BA was a huge TriStar operator but I believe they had a handful of D10s as well
UK operator: BA was a huge TriStar operator but I believe they had a handful of D10s as well
Delta had ordered L-1011-1s; however, when the delivery delays occurred primarily due to the delay with the availability of the new Rolls-Royce RB211 engines, the boys in Atlanta called Long Beach and ordered DC-10s as interim aircraft until the TriStar became available. I also think DL may have briefly operated the DC-10 once again following the acquisition of and merger with Western but I'm not completely sure about this.....and my first trip to Asia (Hong Kong just before the U.K. handed it back to the PRC) was on board a Delta L-1011-500 from LAX to HKG via a tech stop in ANC. The landing at Kai Tak was quite interesting......
Hawaiian replaced their L-1011s with DC-10s with these aircraft primarily coming from American, I think.....and I remember seeing an HA DC-10 that was flying just above and in trail of the airplane I was in, being a UA 763, as we were both on descent and inbound to HNL at the time.....and where was my camera?!
Pan Am inherited DC-10s from National and was also a TriStar operator including the long range L-1011-500.....
As for UA, I remember seeing a L-1011-500 with United titles at SFO and believe this airplane had come from PA following the purchase by UA of Pan Am's Pacific Division for a mere $750 million, if memory serves....
This brings us to American Trans Air (ATA) whose L-1011s were a common sight at HNL and OGG back in the day. I believe American Trans Air had previously operated DC-10-10 and DC-10-40 aircraft which were then replaced with TriStar equipment....
And to round out this quiz item, I believe the DC-10s operated by British Airways were inherited from British Caledonian following the acquisition of BCal by BA....and I remember seeing British Caledonian DC-10s in Houston back when the airline was flying LGW-IAH nonstop....
Last edited by jlemon; Dec 30, 2013 at 3:28 pm Reason: BA/BCal info....
Dec 30, 2013, 2:51 pm
#4015
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Indeed we are! I must've missed that little bit there. Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but I could almost swear that Arrow Air operated an L-1011. I'm pretty sure I have a postcard of it. And I know that Arrow operated DC-10 freighters. If so, we could add them to the list as well.
By the way, jlemon and I are certainly willing to submit more questions as time and travels allow but I just want to make sure it's understood that if any one here would like to come up with their own set of questions, by all means please feel free to do so. Just speak up and I expect your questions will likely go straight to the front of the line. ^
By the way, jlemon and I are certainly willing to submit more questions as time and travels allow but I just want to make sure it's understood that if any one here would like to come up with their own set of questions, by all means please feel free to do so. Just speak up and I expect your questions will likely go straight to the front of the line. ^
And with regard to possible questions from other participants, yes indeed, please feel free to post them at your convenience as this is greatly encouraged! I do have a new batch of quiz items waiting in the wings, so to speak, but will hold off with regard to submitting them until tomorrow in case anyone would like to post their own questions between now and then....
Dec 30, 2013, 3:16 pm
#4016
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jrl22, you in particular have given this question one heck of an effort. Many of your answers have been correct - but unfortunately at times other than December 1988. Even so, you still deserve credit for that. However, we still have four more airlines we're looking for on the following routes:
JFK-YMX:
LAX-YVR:
SFO-YVR:
ORD-YMX:
JFK-YMX:
LAX-YVR:
SFO-YVR:
ORD-YMX:
thank you for the hints on routes ...
just for fun, I will keep flinging random guesses around ...
PK. JFK <-> YMX
CP, LAX <-> YVR
CA, SFO <-> YVR
LY, ORD <-> YMX
Dec 30, 2013, 3:18 pm
#4017
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Alright then, it's time to close out my questions with the answers to this final question.
17. Seven different airlines operated nonstop 747 flights between the United States and Canada. Three of these airlines offered service on the same route. All other airlines and their routes flown were unique. Identify the airlines and the routes flown.
Here is the complete breakdown as per schedules published in the December 1988 OAG:
JFK-YMX: Aerolineas Argentinas, Royal Air Maroc, El Al
ORD-YMX: Sabena
LAX-YVR: Air New Zealand
SFO-YVR: Cathay Pacific
HNL-YVR: Qantas
17. Seven different airlines operated nonstop 747 flights between the United States and Canada. Three of these airlines offered service on the same route. All other airlines and their routes flown were unique. Identify the airlines and the routes flown.
Here is the complete breakdown as per schedules published in the December 1988 OAG:
JFK-YMX: Aerolineas Argentinas, Royal Air Maroc, El Al
ORD-YMX: Sabena
LAX-YVR: Air New Zealand
SFO-YVR: Cathay Pacific
HNL-YVR: Qantas
Dec 30, 2013, 5:30 pm
#4018
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I believe the DC-10s operated by British Airways were inherited from British Caledonian following the acquisition of BCal by BA....and I remember seeing British Caledonian DC-10s in Houston back when the airline was flying LGW-IAH nonstop....
BA had prior experience of the DC-10 because in the late 1970s they used Air New Zealand aircraft for some time on the daily London Heathrow-Los Angeles route, for which (believe it or not) they had no suitable aircraft until the 747-200B aircraft came on line; subsequently they extended the arrangement to about two of the ANZ aircraft each day, used on various routes but all cycled back to New Zealand after a few days, so they were never badged up as BA. I used these flights several times. BA trained up a group of their own pilots on the DC-10, they used to go over to KLM in Amsterdam for simulator sessions and periodic checks.
Another UK operator of both tri-jet types was Caledonian, a BA offshoot but run independently from Gatwick with their own AOC etc. They used a substantial fleet of L-1011-1s on European holiday routes, and DC-10-30s on long-haul flights to the Caribbean etc which were beyond the Tristars nonstop. The DC-10s lasted longer than the Tristars.
The Caledonian Tristars were all withdrawn at the end of October 1999, having gone from mainline BA long before. They actually were stored after the last weekend flights on Sunday October 29, which is the end of the summer season for UK holiday flights, coinciding with the end of schools half-term holidays. Now I had been on holiday in the Algarve, Portugal, with a girlfriend of the time who was a schoolteacher and thus had to take the same holidays as the kids (separate discussion about the need to do this
), and on that Sunday evening we returned (by 737) through Faro airport to Gatwick. Not our flight, but there was a Caledonian L-1011 doing the same route stuck there, already about 8 hours late with a mechanical issue, as you can imagine the handling agent had likely cleared out their Tristar spare parts by then and they were waiting for spares to be shipped out on a later flight from Gatwick. It will have been this Tristars very last commercial flight. Quite unknown to us, my own boss and his kids were on that flight, having been to the Algarve for the week as well, and had been stuck in the departure lounge all day. What a good thing we never saw one another ! They've never found out !
Dec 30, 2013, 5:38 pm
#4019
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Dec 31, 2013, 8:51 am
#4020
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My understanding is that, technically, these five DC-10s were actually ordered and owned by United from the beginning, and leased by Delta in an arrangement that was open ended for them, given that the L-1011 programme was in doubt. They did of course revert to United once the Delta L-1011s were delivered, and were built to full UA spec.
Another UK operator of both tri-jet types was Caledonian, a BA offshoot but run independently from Gatwick with their own AOC etc. They used a substantial fleet of L-1011-1s on European holiday routes, and DC-10-30s on long-haul flights to the Caribbean etc which were beyond the Tristars nonstop. The DC-10s lasted longer than the Tristars.
Another UK operator of both tri-jet types was Caledonian, a BA offshoot but run independently from Gatwick with their own AOC etc. They used a substantial fleet of L-1011-1s on European holiday routes, and DC-10-30s on long-haul flights to the Caribbean etc which were beyond the Tristars nonstop. The DC-10s lasted longer than the Tristars.
And we can now add Caledonian to the list as well.....
Meantime, I will hold off a bit longer with regard to posting a new set of quiz items in order to allow more time for anyone else who wishes to do so as I fully realize it takes time to formulate such a list....
Happy New Years Eve, everyone!