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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Dec 24, 2013, 8:29 am
  #3976  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A

27. Although the BAC-111 was flown by many US airlines before and after 1983, in the summer of 1983 only four U.S. airlines were operating it. Can you identify them? PARTIALLY A N S W E R E D - USAir (US) and Pacific Express (VB)

28. Name the only two airlines still operating scheduled domestic flights with the 707 in 1983 PARTIALLY A N S W E R E D - TWA (TW)
27. Wild guess time....

Air Illinois (UX) and Britt Airways (RU)

28. Very wild guess time.....

Aeronaves de Puerto Rico (AD). So was this airline a U.S. air carrier operating domestic flights? Well, they would have had oversight from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Puerto Rico is a U.S. territory so I'd have to think the answer to this is "yes".

Last edited by jlemon; Dec 24, 2013 at 8:35 am
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Old Dec 24, 2013, 8:41 am
  #3977  
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I can only think of two other Colorado ski towns with large airports ... Hayden/Steamboat Springs (SBS) and Gunnison (GUC)


absent the Quizmasters' traditional "close-but-no-cigar" responses to erroneous guesses, I'm thinking "AA 757 to/from JFK and Mad Dog to/from LAX" probably isn't the right answer

however, I can't associate UA or CO with any east coast service to the Colorado Rockies other than DEN and COS, and I can't associate any other carrier with service into SBS or GUC ... so I'm going to go with the above anyway, on a "third time is the charm" premise
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Old Dec 24, 2013, 8:50 am
  #3978  
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Originally Posted by jlemon

28. Very wild guess time.....

Aeronaves de Puerto Rico (AD). So was this airline a U.S. air carrier operating domestic flights? Well, they would have had oversight from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Puerto Rico is a U.S. territory so I'd have to think the answer to this is "yes".
However, on the other hand, I seem to recall we had discussed Aeronaves de Puerto Rico awhile back....and it appeared to be uncertain whether this airline actually operated scheduled passenger flights with B707 equipment between SJU and JFK, even though their schedules appeared in an OAG back in 1983.

And that recollection jogged this old timer's memory a bit more.....

So instead, let's go with South Pacific Island Air (HK) operating B707 service nonstop between HNL and ANC.......
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Old Dec 24, 2013, 8:56 am
  #3979  
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Originally Posted by jrl22
I can only think of two other Colorado ski towns with large airports ... Hayden/Steamboat Springs (SBS) and Gunnison (GUC)
The two letter code for Hayden (actually the Yampa Valley Regional Airport) is HDN.

SBS is the small airport in Steamboat Springs that has never had jet service but was served by Rocky Mountain Airways (JC) with DHC-7 Dash 7 STOL turboprops with flights primarily to DEN.

However, I believe you are on the right track here.......

Last edited by jlemon; Dec 24, 2013 at 9:12 am
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Old Dec 24, 2013, 11:29 am
  #3980  
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Originally Posted by jlemon

18. (In late 1988) This airline offered the only DC-10 service between Los Angeles and Miami.

Ah, perhaps it was Pan Am possibly operating a DC-10 formerly flown by National.......

Boy, this IS a tough one! Now we know it wasn't American, National, Pan American or Western. And that leaves only _______________.

27. Although the BAC-111 was flown by many US airlines before and after 1983, in the summer of 1983 only four (three) U.S. airlines were operating it. Can you identify them?

Wild guess time.... Air Illinois (UX) and Britt Airways (RU)

Air Illinois is correct! And I am incorrect inasmuch as this question missed the late night proof reading. In summer of '83, four airlines operated the BAC-111 in North America but only three of them were U.S. airlines (US Air, Pacific Express and Air Illinois). The Canadian airline was Quebecair. In later years, I can think of at least five U.S. airlines that operated the British twinjet.

28. (In summer of 1983) Name the only two airlines still operating scheduled flights with the 707

Very wild guess time..... Aeronaves de Puerto Rico (AD). So was this airline a U.S. air carrier operating domestic flights? Well, they would have had oversight from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Puerto Rico is a U.S. territory so I'd have to think the answer to this is "yes".

Not a bad guess, and in fact Aeronaves de Puerto Rico is shown to be operating 707s on the JFK-SJU route in the OAG I referenced. However, it would appear these flights were never realized. WHBM addresses this point with his post right HERE

So, we're still looking for one more 707 operator, one that operated a long overwater flight from one U.S. city to another... (and we're not talkin' Trust Territories)


However, on the other hand, I seem to recall we had discussed Aeronaves de Puerto Rico awhile back....and it appeared to be uncertain whether this airline actually operated scheduled passenger flights with B707 equipment between SJU and JFK, even though their schedules appeared in an OAG back in 1983.

And that recollection jogged this old timer's memory a bit more..... So instead, let's go with South Pacific Island Air (HK) operating B707 service nonstop between HNL and ANC.......

Yes!!!!
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Old Dec 24, 2013, 11:36 am
  #3981  
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Originally Posted by WHBM

15. What was different about the six Sud Aviation Caravelles operated collectively by Air Afrique, Air Congo and TransEuropa?

I'll just chip in on this one, these were the slow-selling Caravelle 11R version, only six made (two each), a cargo/passenger combi with a large front cargo door. Both the African operators used them on infrequent long-line operations across mid and west Africa, while the Transeuropa ones initially operated an Iberia contract painted in IB livery, only later coming onto the holiday flights up to northern Europe which the rest of their Caravelle fleet did. The Spanish holiday flight operators didn't get much work in the winter, and a number of them then operated cargo flights carrying citrus fruits, or even early season potatoes, from southern Spain and the Canary Islands up to northern European cities, for which the cargo door was obviously ideal (Air Spain used to do the same with seat-stripped Bristol Britannias, loaded through the passenger door, which took hours to load and unload by hand.) The Caravelle 11R had a short fuselage extension, about one seat row, to maintain the original balance with the cargo door fitted.

I think an all-cargo, potatoes-carrying Caravelle reaches a new point of obscurity, even for this thread !

Three of the six, the two Air Congo (later renamed Air Zaire) ones, and one of the Transeuropas, were later sold to the French Air Force and deployed to Tahiti in the South Pacific where they were used as shuttle aircraft from there to French nuclear test base islands, the freight doors being key for their selection. Now way back in our early days we discussed Caravelles in the South Pacific, UTA operated schedules with one, but there were also these aircraft, which stayed for about 20 years, 1976 to 1996, until they were finally retired.

You could not have been more correct had you actually designed, built and sold those Caravelles. Thanks for the superb detail, WHBM.
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Old Dec 24, 2013, 12:06 pm
  #3982  
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20. (In late 1988) Name the only Colorado ski resort town to enjoy nonstop service from both the east and west coast. Which airline served this town? From where?

Per jrl22: pure speculation again ... AA, Aspen (ASE), same ops: 757 to/from JFK, M80 to/from Los Angeles,

Per jlemon: Ah....ASE cannot handle this type of equipment. The B757 and MD-80 have never been operated into Aspen. The first scheduled passenger jet service into ASE was operated by Aspen Airways with the BAe 146-100. Currently, Aspen has CRJ-700 service provided by American Eagle and United Express/SkyWest. The CRJ-700 is the largest aircraft type operated into ASE.

Per jrl22: I can only think of two other Colorado ski towns with large airports ... Hayden/Steamboat Springs (SBS) and Gunnison (GUC)

absent the Quizmasters' traditional "close-but-no-cigar" responses to erroneous guesses, I'm thinking "AA 757 to/from JFK and Mad Dog to/from LAX" probably isn't the right answer

however, I can't associate UA or CO with any east coast service to the Colorado Rockies other than DEN and COS, and I can't associate any other carrier with service into SBS or GUC ... so I'm going to go with the above anyway, on a "third time is the charm" premise

Now, I'm a little confused by your response as you've indicated two airports (SBS/HDN & GUC) when the question only calls for one. When shooting from the hip, I suppose shotguns are going to be more accurate than rifles so let's clear this one off the board with the answer, which is

Steamboat Springs via the Yampa Valley Regional Airport. American operated a Saturday only 767 nonstop from Newark and a daily 727-200 flight from Los Angeles.

AA 1423 EWR-HDN 11:30a - 2:02p 767
AA 852 LAX-HDN 9:55a - 1:01p 72S

In the winter of 1988, American also served HDN with nonstop flights from Chicago and Dallas.

SBS was the smaller of two airports serving Steamboat Springs. It was served by Rocky Mountain Airways. I have vivid memories of flying in there one cold January morning aboard a DASH 7. The temperature was -45F.

As noted above, the other airport serving Steamboat Springs is the Yampa Valley Regional Airport. Over the years, it has been served by Frontier, American, America West, Continental, Delta, Northwest, PSA and United.

American, Delta and United both served Gunnison with jets. In fact, I once flew out of GUC to ATL on a Delta 757. The Crested Butte ski area is 27 miles north of Gunnison.

Telluride Ski Area has a small airport in town, but receives jet service through Montrose, CO, 68 miles northeast of Telluride. Continental once operated a 737-500 nonstop from Newark and more recently regional jet service out of Houston.

Durango (Purgatory/Durango Ski Mountain) has been served by MD-80s out of Dallas on American as well as 737s from Frontier and America West.

Grand Junction (Powderhorn) has also been served by a number of airlines. jlemon once provided an extensive breakdown of jet service into Colorado airports but I'll be darned if I can find it at present. I do remember seeing an Air Canada DC-8-61 parked there in January 1976, assumedly on a charter from somewhere in Canada.

Last edited by Seat 2A; Dec 24, 2013 at 2:33 pm
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Old Dec 24, 2013, 12:25 pm
  #3983  
 
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It's Christmas Eve over here in London, dark, near-snowing (we had a few flakes earlier today when I was out shopping in Oxford Street), and time to wish a very Happy Christmas to all thread participants, and also to the approximately 40 readers we get here for each and every post. Christmas Eve is traditionally a time for stories by the fireside, so what is there from the old days of airlines at this time ?

Well we could tell about the three De Havilland Albatross aircraft in 1938, newly introduced, which were assigned to a special air mail operation in the weeks before Christmas 1938 out to Egypt, Africa and Asia. All three broke down before they got to Cairo and the most unwelcome emergency operation had to be performed with older aircraft to recover the situation. Oh dear. But there are good stories as well.

Well, in the 1970s British Airways had taken to the "Shuttle" concept for domestic flights, no reservations, guaranteed seat, and second and even third sections ("backups") standing by to maintain the promise. US readers may recall the comparable service that Eastern operated on Boston-New York-Washington. BA operated this way from London Heathrow initially to Glasgow, and then Edinburgh and Belfast. There is a lot of business travel on the first two routes, which somewhat fell away as Christmas approached. Belfast was a bit different, and there had always been strong demand in the days before December 25 by those travelling home to Ireland to see the family, which led to flight becoming fully booked for days beforehand, and ultimately having to fall back on the railway to Liverpool and then a very crowded overnight ship. With the Shuttle, of course, you were guaranteed for every flight.

BA's Shuttle planning team did their usual demand forecast for what was going to happen on the Belfast run, but it didn't quite work out as they thought ...... by Christmas Eve afternoon they were still way down on expectations, then it all suddenly came for the last flights (operated by Tridents in those days), hundreds if not thousands turned up. Every backup aircraft was pressed into service, but by the end of the evening, with BA's European operation shutting down for Christmas (there are no domestic/European flights on Christmas Day here) they were left with about 600 people in the old Terminal 1 at Heathrow they couldn't accommodate, no crews left, no ground transport now running, and a PR "no room at the Shuttle" nightmare pending.

Salvation came in the long-haul side of BA, who still run on in part on Christmas Day. Two early-arrival 747s on December 25 were turned round, two sets of 747 crews off standby were rustled up, a few airport staff at Belfast were prevailed upon to come in for an hour to the otherwise closed airport, and everyone was got over to Northern Ireland on Christmas morning. Meanwhile back at Heathrow the Shuttle management had stayed on all night, and raided the catering stores (mainly liquid I believe !) to serve what they could get away with, which had certainly helped things along. It's a nice little Christmas story of flying in the 1970s with an upbeat ending.

Happy Christmas all.
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Old Dec 24, 2013, 2:13 pm
  #3984  
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that is indeed a fine story WHBM ... a happy Christmas to you and yours as well
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Old Dec 24, 2013, 7:59 pm
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M E R R Y .. C H R I S T M A S .. E V E R Y O N E !!!

And to all a good flight!

Last edited by Seat 2A; Dec 26, 2013 at 1:45 am
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Old Dec 24, 2013, 8:42 pm
  #3986  
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very well done sir!

and the happiest of holidays to you and yours up there in Santa-land
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Old Dec 25, 2013, 9:59 am
  #3987  
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:-: A very Merry Christmas to one and all! :-:

And very best wishes for the New Year to include smooth flights, hassle-free connections and front cabin upgrades for all!

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Old Dec 27, 2013, 4:55 pm
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Originally Posted by jlemon
Transair in the U.K. with Viscounts and DC-3s, I believe (feel free to chime in here, WHBM, not only concerning this carrier but also with regard to Conair and their Boeing 720Bs!).........
OK, a few notes on these two quite different carriers. By the way, I don't think either of them will have ever made the OAG.

Transair was a real old hand in the UK from immediately after WW2, they had Avro Ansons (a sort of Beech 18-equivalent) and later DC3s which they operated on mostly charter work out of the classic old 1930s London Croydon airport, with odd schedules to the UK Channel islands in the summer. They bought Viscounts, some new, for their military charter work from 1958, then in 1960 were one of the constituents of British United Airways.

Conair in Denmark was a classic European holiday flight carrier, who had a remarkably consistent fleet and operations down to the Mediterranean etc over the years. Started from Copenhagen in 1965 by the Spies Rejser travel company, they got 5 ex-American DC-7s (the standard DC-7 was always rare in Europe), then in 1971 changed over to 5 Boeing 720-025s from Eastern. Ten years on, in 1981 they changed these over for 5 Boeing 720-051Bs with better engines, which had started life with Northwest and came through fellow Danish holiday flight carrier Maersk. These got replaced in 1987 by the 3 former SAS/Scanair A300s, less aircraft but larger, so the same overall capacity, obviously not a good plan because in 1991 they changed the whole fleet again for 6, this time new, A320s. In 1994 they merged up and the carrier was lost, eventually it's part of the Thomas Cook pan-European carrier nowadays. I wonder if there's anyone still at Cooks in Denmark who started on the DC-7s ? I can't think of another carrier which had such a consistent fleet capacity and area of operation for 30 years.

If you want a story about the Avro Anson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Anson , they were pretty much all ex-WW2 RAF aircraft, and got used on odd UK minor routes in the 1950s (Transair did a lot of overnight newspaper flying contracts with them). Mr WHBM Senior was called up into the RAF in the war and was a navigator on the mainstream bombers across Europe ^ , and they also had an Anson at the base for odd work. Now these were young guys, many had never even driven a car in those days, given responsibilities for aircraft which they often took loosely. And there was a pilot in the mess of equal characteristics, and over a beer one evening they got into a discussion about the practicalities of looping-the-loop in the base Anson (very strictly non-aerobatic). This idea got developed, very quietly, through some research, until one day they arranged a detail, just the two of them, when they would have plenty of space above the clouds, clear of prying eyes from the ground, with parachutes and a pre-arranged story, should they have to bale out, that the controls had suddenly jammed. Off they went, and it apparently went over perfectly sweetly, no damage done.

Ansons in service were well before my time, but there's just one still airworthy on the airshow circuit, and you can imagine what I'm thinking as it flies sedately past. You'd have got drummed out of the Air Force had any of this come to light, but as the two gentlemen involved have both moved on to a world where this doesn't matter any more, now the Anson Looping tale can be related.

Last edited by WHBM; Dec 27, 2013 at 5:01 pm
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Old Dec 28, 2013, 10:29 am
  #3989  
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Many thanks as always, WHBM!
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Old Dec 28, 2013, 11:18 am
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A

13. This airline had a glass-fibre, Teflon coated shield on the underside of its two 727-100s. What airline was this and why the need for the teflon shield?

The following questions are based upon schedules published in a 1988 OAG

18. This airline offered the only DC-10 service between Los Angeles and Miami.

21. Name the only airline offering nonstop service on the JAX-MIA route with five flights per day.
13. I'll guess this was Alaska Airlines. I'll also guess the reason for this was to protect the underside of the fuselage of these particular 727s when these aircraft were being operated into unpaved, gravel runways.

18. Yet another guess......United operated a hub at one point at MIA so let's go with UA.

21. Sounds like USAir back when they were operating quite a few flights between a number of cities in Florida. Aircraft operated on the MIA-JAX route may have included 72S, 73S, 733, F28, etc......
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