Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.
Nov 21, 2023, 9:39 pm
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1C- just for purposes of simplifying future guessing: F100, 734, 735, and D10 are irrelevant here, as DL didn’t operate those types in 1999
I neglected to acknowledge that moondog correctly identified SLC-BIL as the regional affiliate flight, so given that we’ve eliminated the Canadair CRJ-100 and -200, the aircraft type on that leg should be a tap-in
I neglected to acknowledge that moondog correctly identified SLC-BIL as the regional affiliate flight, so given that we’ve eliminated the Canadair CRJ-100 and -200, the aircraft type on that leg should be a tap-in
Nov 21, 2023, 9:50 pm
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1C- both larger CRJ series are INCORRECT (remember that we’re talking about a 1999 itinerary, and the CR7 only made its first flight in May of that year)
Nov 21, 2023, 10:25 pm
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1C- both larger CRJ series are INCORRECT (remember that we’re talking about a 1999 itinerary, and the CR7 only made its first flight in May of that year)
Nov 21, 2023, 10:53 pm
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1C- DL (SkyWest) EM2 is CORRECT for SLC-BIL
in reviewing upthread, I only used “think bigger” in connection with the US (1A) and NW (1D) jets
in reviewing upthread, I only used “think bigger” in connection with the US (1A) and NW (1D) jets
Nov 26, 2023, 10:30 pm
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Student Travel in the 1960s
Here's a story that might interest some:
In 1967 I was awarded a grant to study at the Freie Universitaet in Berlin for one year. A friend decided to go along for the experience, and we started planning. How did students travel to Europe in 1967? From the mid-1920s to the mid-1960s members of my family all traveled to Europe on ocean liners, and in the past 20 years I have done so also - at least eastbound. All except an aunt and uncle, that is, who flew SAS to Europe in 1950 or 1951, no doubt on a DC-6 with a re-fueling stop in Newfoundland (and also in Ireland?). But in 1967 jets had taken over, and poor students flew on Loftleidir (loud, bone-rattling prop-jet Canadair CL-44s JFK-Keflavik-Luxembourg). Why Luxembourg, of all places? Because it was the only place in Europe that resisted IATA pressure to keep Loftleidir's big, low-fare planes from landing. The fare was low: $167.80 (my friend collected all tickets, receipts and brochures for his files), according to inflation calculators equal to about $1100 today. That seems high, but it probably says more about how economical flying has become in the jet age. Dinner was included, with wine and cognac! Loftleidir billed itself the "low-fare airline," and was popularly called the "Hippie Airline."
Loftleidir also offered a 24-hour stopover in Reykjavik, with hotel, all meals and sightseeing, costing only $19.50 ($15 in the off-season). We took advantage of this offer and thoroughly enjoyed it. My friend picked up Hotel Loftleidir's rate chart, which showed rooms costing $8 (single) or $14 (double).
From Luxembourg we took the train to Koblenz, where a nice lady invited us to lunch, then to Aschaffenburg, where my friend's sister and brother-in-law lived (he was in the U.S. Army), to Stuttgart, where I had friends and relatives and on to Berlin. The Stuttgart-Berlin ticket cost DM 56.60 (= $14.50), for an 11-hour trip.
The 1967-68 academic year in Berlin was hectic and disruptive. Students had started questioning authority, addressing professors with the familiar "Du," for instance, and asking their parents "What did you do in the war, Daddy?" We had just missed the shooting of Rudy Dutschke and the earlier shooting of Benno Ohnesorg during the riots when the Shah visited Berlin, but there were still many raucous street demonstrations (passersby asked, "Why don't you go to East Berlin if you don't like it here?") and all-night-long university sit-ins to discuss the evils of the Vietnamese war, the insidious influences of old Nazis in West German government and society and the general persecution of marginalized groups. It was all very exciting and energizing, but we did get some scholarly work done too.
At the end of the academic year (June, 1968), we decided we should see more of Europe and so took the train first to Prague. This was the height of the Prague Spring, when the Czechoslovak government under Alexander Dubcek tried to install a more democratic, but still socialist, regime in Prague. The city was overwhelmed with visitors from all over to see the exuberant Czechs' and Slovaks' attempt at reforming their society. There were no hotel rooms to be had, so we were put up in a tent on the outskirts of town. Six weeks later the Soviet invasion put an end to this budding democracy for the next two decades.
From Prague we went on to Vienna, Venice and Florence. I had to attend to an administrative matter in Berlin, so we took the overnight train to Munich and flew to Berlin (Pan Am 727-100 Munich-Riem to Berlin-Tempelhof - until 1966 a route flown with DC-6Bs). Then it was per U-Bahn to the university and back to Tempelhof for the BEA Viscount (probably a model 701) flight to Cologne. Had we stayed another two weeks, we could have flown on BEA's short-lived Comet-4 service to Cologne; alas, I never got to fly on one. The Berlin routes from West Germany were regulated by the four-power occupation forces and available only to airlines of the US, UK and France. The planes had to fly along one of 3 proscribed air corridors and with a 10,000' ceiling. And no plane could pass another one. After construction of the Berlin wall in 1961 the West German government subsidized the services. Then it was back to Koblenz, Luxembourg and Loftleidir's CL-44 to New York. An exciting year!
In 1967 I was awarded a grant to study at the Freie Universitaet in Berlin for one year. A friend decided to go along for the experience, and we started planning. How did students travel to Europe in 1967? From the mid-1920s to the mid-1960s members of my family all traveled to Europe on ocean liners, and in the past 20 years I have done so also - at least eastbound. All except an aunt and uncle, that is, who flew SAS to Europe in 1950 or 1951, no doubt on a DC-6 with a re-fueling stop in Newfoundland (and also in Ireland?). But in 1967 jets had taken over, and poor students flew on Loftleidir (loud, bone-rattling prop-jet Canadair CL-44s JFK-Keflavik-Luxembourg). Why Luxembourg, of all places? Because it was the only place in Europe that resisted IATA pressure to keep Loftleidir's big, low-fare planes from landing. The fare was low: $167.80 (my friend collected all tickets, receipts and brochures for his files), according to inflation calculators equal to about $1100 today. That seems high, but it probably says more about how economical flying has become in the jet age. Dinner was included, with wine and cognac! Loftleidir billed itself the "low-fare airline," and was popularly called the "Hippie Airline."
Loftleidir also offered a 24-hour stopover in Reykjavik, with hotel, all meals and sightseeing, costing only $19.50 ($15 in the off-season). We took advantage of this offer and thoroughly enjoyed it. My friend picked up Hotel Loftleidir's rate chart, which showed rooms costing $8 (single) or $14 (double).
From Luxembourg we took the train to Koblenz, where a nice lady invited us to lunch, then to Aschaffenburg, where my friend's sister and brother-in-law lived (he was in the U.S. Army), to Stuttgart, where I had friends and relatives and on to Berlin. The Stuttgart-Berlin ticket cost DM 56.60 (= $14.50), for an 11-hour trip.
The 1967-68 academic year in Berlin was hectic and disruptive. Students had started questioning authority, addressing professors with the familiar "Du," for instance, and asking their parents "What did you do in the war, Daddy?" We had just missed the shooting of Rudy Dutschke and the earlier shooting of Benno Ohnesorg during the riots when the Shah visited Berlin, but there were still many raucous street demonstrations (passersby asked, "Why don't you go to East Berlin if you don't like it here?") and all-night-long university sit-ins to discuss the evils of the Vietnamese war, the insidious influences of old Nazis in West German government and society and the general persecution of marginalized groups. It was all very exciting and energizing, but we did get some scholarly work done too.
At the end of the academic year (June, 1968), we decided we should see more of Europe and so took the train first to Prague. This was the height of the Prague Spring, when the Czechoslovak government under Alexander Dubcek tried to install a more democratic, but still socialist, regime in Prague. The city was overwhelmed with visitors from all over to see the exuberant Czechs' and Slovaks' attempt at reforming their society. There were no hotel rooms to be had, so we were put up in a tent on the outskirts of town. Six weeks later the Soviet invasion put an end to this budding democracy for the next two decades.
From Prague we went on to Vienna, Venice and Florence. I had to attend to an administrative matter in Berlin, so we took the overnight train to Munich and flew to Berlin (Pan Am 727-100 Munich-Riem to Berlin-Tempelhof - until 1966 a route flown with DC-6Bs). Then it was per U-Bahn to the university and back to Tempelhof for the BEA Viscount (probably a model 701) flight to Cologne. Had we stayed another two weeks, we could have flown on BEA's short-lived Comet-4 service to Cologne; alas, I never got to fly on one. The Berlin routes from West Germany were regulated by the four-power occupation forces and available only to airlines of the US, UK and France. The planes had to fly along one of 3 proscribed air corridors and with a 10,000' ceiling. And no plane could pass another one. After construction of the Berlin wall in 1961 the West German government subsidized the services. Then it was back to Koblenz, Luxembourg and Loftleidir's CL-44 to New York. An exciting year!
Nov 26, 2023, 11:22 pm
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Agreed, and it taught me about an airline I hadn't previously heard of. I'll ask my mom my mom about her travels to Europe during the 60s when I see her next month. I know she was on a tight budget, but I'm pretty sure she used an airline like TWA or BA.
ETA: I just read an article about that airline, and maybe it is the one my mom used because I vaguely recall her telling me about Iceland.
ETA: I just read an article about that airline, and maybe it is the one my mom used because I vaguely recall her telling me about Iceland.
Last edited by moondog; Nov 26, 2023 at 11:36 pm
Nov 27, 2023, 9:38 pm
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I flew JFK-KEF-LUX on Loftleiğir in 1970, then a Luxair F-27 to FRA for a Pan Am 727 to Tempelhof. The JFK-KEF flight, also in a CL-44J, made a refueling stop at Gander because of long delays taking off from JFK. I remember the cognac, but the most surprising thing was being served a tumbler of Scotch on the Luxair flight at 10:00 a.m. I was 18 at the time, on the way gradually to Vienna. The LUX-KEF-JFK return flight was in a DC-8.
I flew on Icelandair a few years ago, trying to get to the Faroe Islands. Atlantic Airways was then flying from RKV and I missed the connection, resulting in an unplanned weekend in Iceland. I stayed at the Hotel Natura, built by Loftleiğir and adjacent to its headquarters; my room overlooked the field at RKV. I have never seen so many Dassault Falcon tri-jets anywhere else.
I flew on Icelandair a few years ago, trying to get to the Faroe Islands. Atlantic Airways was then flying from RKV and I missed the connection, resulting in an unplanned weekend in Iceland. I stayed at the Hotel Natura, built by Loftleiğir and adjacent to its headquarters; my room overlooked the field at RKV. I have never seen so many Dassault Falcon tri-jets anywhere else.
Nov 27, 2023, 10:37 pm
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we were in Iceland in Sep; I also saw a lot of “big iron” bizjets at RKV, along with a few large helicopters, but one morning there was a departing Pilatus PC-12
naturally I pulled up FlightAware to see where that one was going … 865 miles to Ilulissat (on the west coast of Greenland) for an overnight stop, thence to Iqaluit, La Grand River, International Falls, and Omaha
naturally I pulled up FlightAware to see where that one was going … 865 miles to Ilulissat (on the west coast of Greenland) for an overnight stop, thence to Iqaluit, La Grand River, International Falls, and Omaha
Nov 28, 2023, 10:23 am
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do they have the legs for Middle East to West Coast NA, say DXB/AUH<> SNA/SJC?
RKV splits that 8400-mile trip into two almost exactly equal 4300-mile legs
RKV splits that 8400-mile trip into two almost exactly equal 4300-mile legs