jlemon

The timeline for all of the following questions is the summer of 1983.

1) Identify four (4) airlines that operated nonstop service between SFO and IAH. Also identify the equipment operated on the route by each carrier.

2) Identify six (6) airlines that operated nonstop service between SLC and DEN. Also identify the equipment operated on the route by each carrier.

3) You are in the London area quite close to Gatwick Airport (LGW) and have just been informed that your presence is required for a meeting in Miami. Naturally, you wish to fly from Gatwick as this airport is just minutes away from your location. You've discovered that two airlines fly from LGW to MIA. One carrier operates nonstop service and the other airline operates a onestop, no change of plane direct service. Identify both carriers and the respective aircraft types flown on the route.

4) Now you find yourself in Los Angeles on a Friday night. The phone rings and you are informed that you need to be in Panama City, Panama in time for a Sunday brunch followed by a business meeting on Monday. You discover that two airlines offer nonstop service from LAX to PTY on Saturday. Name both carriers and the aircraft they operated on the route.


5) You've now been in Panama City all week on business and are celebrating the conclusion of a successful negotiation on a Friday night with some new friends. However, you need to be Zurich for a Monday meeting. You've discovered that one airline operates direct, no change of plane service from PTY to ZRH and their front cabin service is not bad. Identify the airline and the equipment operated. And for bonus points, identify the two (2) intermediate stops en route.

6) You've concluded your business in Zurich and have subsequently made your way to the Irish countryside near Shannon in order to visit an old friend for several days. However, you have pressing business back in the Los Angeles so it's time to return to southern California. Shannon Airport is just half an hour from your location and there's a U.S. based airline that flies nonstop from SNN to LAX on Sunday morning. You have never flown on this airline but you decide to try them. Name the air carrier and the aircraft operated on the route.

7) You've taken care of your business in L.A. and are now in northern California in Sonoma County on a beautiful Wednesday afternoon checking out several excellent wineries. But, of course, the phone rings and, yes, it's concerning another urgent meeting that you must attend on Friday in Caracas, Venezuela. A quick check of airline schedules reveals a flight leaving Thursday morning from SFO with direct, onestop no change of plane service to CCS. Identify the air carrier, the type of equipment operated and the location of the intermediate en route stop.

8) From Caracas, you've made your way to Madrid. It's Tuesday evening. And now you need to travel to Miami in morning on the first nonstop flight of day. Identify the airline and the aircraft type used on the MAD to MIA route.

cs57

6) SNN/LAX--Sunday only--Transamerica #347 2:45pm/6:00PM using D8S.
8) MAD/MIA-Wednesday--Iberia #957 1:00/4:00PM using 747 (Air Florida also operated service, but operated MON/FRI only using DC10)

WHBM

It's the year after Laker Airways went spectacularly bankrupt, having built up quite an operation to Miami, and it will take a while for services to Miami to get stabilised again.

The nonstop one will be Air Florida, with DC-10s. They built up a substantial Britain to Florida operation, including to secondary UK points like Manchester. Air Florida themselves went out of business a couple of years later, when Eastern took over; that didn't last long either. This route really did seem to be the kiss of death in the 1980s.

Regarding the "no change, direct" service, I can only think one of the majors like Delta through Atlanta.

cs57

5)/PTY/CCS/Curacao/ZRH using DC10 aircraft and the airline is KLM # 776.

jlemon

6) Correct! Aircraft was a re-engined Douglas DC-8 Super 73 which Transamerica referred to as the "Super 73" in their timetable. Complete westbound routing was Paris (ORY) - Shannon (SNN) - Los Angeles (LAX) - San Francisco (SFO).

8) According to the July 1983 Intl. OAG, Air Florida (QH) 291 departed MAD at 12:00pm and arrived MIA at 3:00pm. The flight operated on Mon. Weds. and Fri. only and was operated with a DC-10. The Iberia flight operated with a B747 departed later at 1:00pm and was followed by an Aeromexico flight operated with a DC-10 which departed at 6:35pm. However, I think we are all cognizant with regard to flight schedules being subject to change, so Iberia may have well had an earlier flight at one point during the summer of 1983.....

jlemon

3) Air Florida is correct!

And the other carrier was Arrow Air (JW) operating Douglas Super DC-8 (D8S) aircraft. Arrow Air flew twice a week from LGW to MIA: JW 701 operated on Mondays only and JW 703 operated on Sundays only. I have yet to discover where the intermediate stop was between LGW and MIA but do know that JW 703 originated at AMS.

jlemon

5) Correct! This flight continued on to AMS from ZRH. And I think it's interesting to note that this KLM Royal Dutch flight stopped in Switzerland first on the eastbound transatlantic leg before proceeding to their home country hub.

Wally Bird

I believe it was Tampa, DC-10s were also used.

Cattle Airlines

About 15 years later, in the 1990's, United Airlines was granted temporary rights and did actually fly MIA-LHR. The rights were short lived and later taken away and awarded to American.

jlemon

Here are the remainder of the quiz items for the weekend......and in case you're wondering, it's still raining here in LFT. In fact, we are now about one foot above normal with regard to our annual rainfall.....

9) In the spring of 1963, what airline operated nonstop DC-8 service from New York Idlewild Airport to Milwaukee?

10) In the summer of 1963, this airline operated direct onestop jet service twice a day from Newark (EWR) to Milwaukee (MKE). Both flights made the intermediate stop in the same city and the same aircraft type was used on the route. Name the airline and the aircraft type. Also identify the location of the intermediate stop.

11) In the later winter of 1964, what airline operated direct onestop B720B service from Seattle to Honolulu? Also identify the intermediate stop.

12) It's the summer of 1968 and you wish to fly from Winnipeg (YWG) to Miami (MIA) directly with no change in plane in first class. What airline would you travel on? Also identify the aircraft type.

13) Also in the summer of 1968, this airline operated direct no change of plane service twice a day from Chicago Midway (MDW) to Winnipeg (YWG). Name the air carrier and the type of aircraft used.

14) In the early winter of 1974, this airline operated direct, no change of plane service from Miami (MIA) to Anchorage (ANC) several times a week. There were four (4) intermediate stops en route between MIA and ANC and one of these stops was in a Canadian city. Identify the air carrier, the equipment used and all four intermediate stops.

15) It's the fall of 1979 and you are in Denver. You need to travel to Peoria, IL (PIA) and you've discovered that two (2) airlines fly DEN-PIA nonstop. However, only one of these airlines offers first class and, of course, that's the one you wish to fly on. Identify both airlines and respective equipment they used on the route.

16) It's still the fall of 1979 and you are back in Denver following your trip to the exciting small city of Peoria. You've noticed that United Airlines operates a substantial number of stretched Douglas DC-8 Super 61 flights into DEN from various U.S. cities. In fact, you've identified no less than fourteen (14) cities that have nonstop UA D8S service into Denver. Name as many of these cities as you can.

17) Now you have to travel from Denver to Louisville in the fall of 1979. You've discovered that only one airline flies nonstop from DEN to SDF. Identify the airline and the aircraft used on the route.

18) It's the spring of 1981 and you need to travel from Dallas/Ft. Worth (DFW) to New Orleans (MSY). One airline offers wide body service twice a day nonstop from DFW to MSY. Name the air carrier and the aircraft type.

19) It's the summer of 1983 and you are back in Caracas, Venezuela for yet another meeting. Now it's time to head to London. Your preferred arrival airport is Gatwick (LGW) and you've discovered that one airline can fly you there directly with just one intermediate stop en route. Identify the air carrier, the equipment flown on the route and the location of the intermediate stop.

20) Now you are in Alaska for a salmon fishing expedition on the Kenai peninsula. It's still the summer of 1983. You receive word that your presence is required in Madrid for a meeting. "No problem," says your old friend, "I'll fly you up to Anchorage in my float plane and we'll land on a lake right next to Anchorage International. And by the way, I just happen to know of an airline that can fly you directly with no change of plane from Anchorage to Madrid. See if you can guess the name of the airline I'm talking about here and the type of airplane they fly on this route over the top of the world!"

Wally Bird

WHBM

Not enough time to write about all these questions, much as I would like to, but I'll comment on this one.

It was long common for European long-haul carriers to stop at one or more intermediate "fifth freedom" points elsewhere in Europe, something from prop aircraft days that quite slowly disappeared over the ensuing years. Well into 747 times, for example, a selection of British Airways flights to Africa and Asia stopped at Frankfurt, Zurich or Rome. Several European carriers heading for South America stopped at Madrid or Lisbon.

Another example was when Finnair started transatlantic operations in 1969, when they first bought their DC8s, they stopped at Copenhagen and Amsterdam on their way between Helsinki and New York. Progressively, over the years, one, the other, or both were dropped on various days of the week, but it took many years to establish a full non-stop service, because when the DC-10 came along they were back to having insufficient loads to fill the aircraft.

OK then, associated questions about these Fifth Freedom operators from the mid-1960s.

1. Who had a daily nonstop from Glasgow to New York.

2. Who had flights from both London and Paris, on different days of the week, to San Francisco,

Seat 2A

Wow! Well I hope it dries up a bit for you but then again, it is hurricane season... Up here at Latitude 65, it's sunny and really windy. I watched a man chase after his hat for a good 150 yards this afternoon. It was like something out of an old Buster Keaton movie. The mountain was out though and we had a grizzly bear sow and two cubs walk right past us (we're talkin' like less than 10' away) on the park road. Sweet.

9) In the spring of 1963, what airline operated nonstop DC-8 service from New York Idlewild Airport to Milwaukee?

It's gotta be United. But then Northwest also had DC-8s for awhile. Y'know, I think I'm just gonna go with the red tailed one on this. Northwest. It's my final answer.

11) In the later winter of 1964, what airline operated direct onestop B720B service from Seattle to Honolulu? Also identify the intermediate stop.

Once again, I'm going with Northwest Orient: The Fan-Jet Airline. The intermediate stop was Portland.

15) It's the fall of 1979 and you are in Denver. You need to travel to Peoria, IL (PIA) and you've discovered that two (2) airlines fly DEN-PIA nonstop. However, only one of these airlines offers first class and, of course, that's the one you wish to fly on. Identify both airlines and respective equipment they used on the route.

In January of 1979 I flew aboard an Ozark DC-9-30 nonstop from Denver to Peoria. It was all one class service and included a fairly passable meatloaf dinner. I'd have to go with Unnited as the other airline, operating a 727-22.

16) It's still the fall of 1979 and you are back in Denver following your trip to the exciting small city of Peoria. You've noticed that United Airlines operates a substantial number of stretched Douglas DC-8 Super 61 flights into DEN from various U.S. cities. In fact, you've identified no less than fourteen (14) cities that have nonstop UA D8S service into Denver. Name as many of these cities as you can.

Hmm... okay, well these aren't alphabetical but just as they come to me so let's see...

Chicago
Washington DC
Baltimore
Salt Lake City
Los Angeles
Las Vegas
San Francisco
Seattle
Portland
Milwaukee
Cleveland
New York-Newark
Philadelphia
Omaha

17) Now you have to travel from Denver to Louisville in the fall of 1979. You've discovered that only one airline flies nonstop from DEN to SDF. Identify the airline and the aircraft used on the route.

Did Piedmont fly into Denver in 1979? I hope so because that's who I'm going with, aboard a 727-100.

18) It's the spring of 1981 and you need to travel from Dallas/Ft. Worth (DFW) to New Orleans (MSY). One airline offers wide body service twice a day nonstop from DFW to MSY. Name the air carrier and the aircraft type.

How about Delta on an L-1011?

WHBM

Northwest sold their DC8s later in 1963, in one of the earliest secondhand jet sales there was, as new 707s came along, and they were mostly used on Transpacific services, but I too think they are the most likely contender.

If I were a gambling man (but am much too sensible to be so) I would bet that somebody has had a retro moment and sneaked in a late Caravelle question here ! And if it was United they would have routed through their favourite focus point of Cleveland.

I'll go for Japan Air Lines on a DC8.

The basis for the current American and United services at London Heathrow is that United took over the Pan Am routes, and American took over the TWA operation. They got changed around a bit since (after all, it's 20 years ago now) but the same basis still sort of prevails. United still has the flight attendant base at Heathrow which they inherited from Pan Am. After all the chopping and changing on the Miami route United got given temporary authority, but American then lobbied on the (quite reasonable) basis that they could offer a far larger set of connections from Miami to the Caribbean and Latin America, and got the permanent authority. American built up a lot of this international transfer traffic, which is relatively unusual for US carriers, but then lost most of it in the security regulations that came in after 9/11, that made a US transit point difficult for many and impossible for quite a number.

I don't recall the detail of whether the United-to-American transfer on the London to Miami route was the successor to the short-lived Eastern operation, or to the Pan Am licence, both will have come up round about the same time. Eastern were unknown in the UK when they started (and indeed, pretty much for the duration of their route), and Gatwick to Miami was a somewhat peripheral route anyway, but I recall an extensive (and presumably expensive, in those days) TV ad campaign they did all across the UK, which showed pilot after pilot coming out of the crew room, while a US-Southern accent described how they had so MANY flights every day. Well I suppose they did, in the USA, but the ad made no mention of where they flew from or to (I think they may have said USA once or twice), or that they only flew from Britain once a day, and seemed really irrelevant to a general UK audience. Really missed its mark; it may have been taken straight from a USA TV ad.

jlemon

Excellent responses above from Wally Bird!

Here's how he did.....

12) Northwest is correct! Here's the actual schedule:

NW 708: YWG-FAR-MSP-ORD-MIA. Equipment: B727. Remarks: First class featured "Regal Imperial Service" (although I think this service was only offered on the ORD-MIA leg).


13) Northwest is correct again! Here are the schedules from the July 1968 timetable:

NW 521: CLE-MDW-MSP-FAR-YWG. Equipment: B727

NW 369: DCA-CLE-MDW-MSP-YWG. Equipment: B727


14) And it's Northwest again! Although I screwed up a bit here as there were only three (3) intermediate stops between MIA and ANC and not four (this is what happens when I quickly scribble questions on a post-it....and I could of swore this flight stopped at either FLL, TPA or ATL en route from MIA to ORD). Here's the schedule from the NW timetable:

NW 715: MIA-ORD-MSP-YEG-ANC. Equipment: Not listed in the timetable. May have been a B720B or a B727. If memory serves me correctly, a B727 was used at one point after NW had retired their B720Bs. And I'm also assuming that Edmonton was served via YEG although the NW timetable does not specify which airport was used. Also later on, NW ceased flying between Edmonton and Anchorage but still served Edmonton nonstop from MSP. Remarks: flight operated MIA to ANC on Tuesdays and Fridays only (BTW, I do know that by Sept., 1987, NW flew MSP-YEG with a 72S and by Dec., 1992, NW flew a D9S on this nonstop route between MSP and YEG).


19) British Caledonian is correct! Here are the actual routings and equipment:

BR 672: CCS-SJU-LGW. Equipment: DC-10. Remarks: flight operated on Sundays only.

BR 676: CCS-SJU-LGW: Equipment: DC-10. Remarks: flight operated on Fridays only.


20) Actually, Japan Air Lines (JAL) with a B747. Complete routing of JL 413 was NRT-ANC-AMS-MAD which was flown once a week.